Live Feed Discussion-September 12, 2018

[sdkgeo]

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[sdkgeo]

Morning everybody.

Thanks for the recap TTO. Finally some action. I knew once they got past the last Hive member things would open up and they would start their end game.

[TTOTambz]

No problem - and I KNEW Tyler would find a way to shift KC off L6 going F4. Tyler has been all over JC this week trying to get the bread crumb he needed but JC thinking Tyler is dumb and smitten just kept telling him this is happening 100% without giving him concrete details. In the final hour Brett served it up himself via suggesting KC leave first. If I had to guess Brett either thinks this would make Ty happy (to not lose Angela) or he's being genuine about keeping JC/Sam targeting Angela and vice versa. And there's the possibility Brett FINALLY realized taking Angela to F2 was better for his game.

BUT once again the well shielded Tyler moves of the season continue to impress. Brett nor JC have ZERO CLUES about how tight KC and Tyler are. Just like FOUTTE/HIVE got burned by not connecting the L6 dots - now Brett is making mistakes by not connecting KC-Ty. So too will JC and eventually Angela as well. The latter could occur Thursday if Ang/KC are on block & Tyler has to vote to keep KC over Angela.

[TTOTambz]

Like I said all along there was NO WAY Tyler was going to let Brett get to F4 when date comps kick in. All week he's been trying to pry "specific" intel from JC regarding Brett he could use & all he got was JC spouting "this is going to happen 100% - just trust me". The crazy thing is JC is still OBLIVIOUS to how great a game Tyler has been playing.

Finally yesterday Brett played right into Tyler's hands by giving him what he thought Tyler wanted to hear. Clearly Brett thought Tyler would be more open to taking out KC (AGAIN--- Tyler camouflages his true intentions/attachments better than anyone in the house).

To that end, the big thing Tyler does (the best) which is underestimated is personality recognize nuances. For example he knows KC can roll with the punches and keep a poker face, whereas if he were to tell Angela about Brett she'd not be able to hide it. This is why Ty-Cee aren't telling Angela upfront & will push her to make Brett feel as safe as possible heading into DE.

If things go as planned for Ty then Brett throws HOH, JC is too scared to win it, Sam also throws it and he tosses it to Angela. She then noms JC - Sam & one of Tyler, Angela or KC win POV remove JC and then Brett goes up & out. That way Tyler will say he had no choice b/c he needed to save JC (to keep JC in line) & he'll tell Sam he wanted the others to think he's closer to JC than her. Then the house is broken in two with him in the middle so he can let whoever win F5 HOH as long as KC stays safe (which she will b/c the other two want Angela out before KC.

He'll want to win both HOH & POV at F4 so that he & KC either arrive at F3 with who they decide they want to take to F3 (I'm thinking it will be Angela) And b/c she also doesn't see the Ty-Cee connection she'll think they will both take her to F2 & may not try too hard to compete to win either part which will play right into KC/Tys hands.

Sure sounds simple, but the biggest road block will occur this Thursday by taking out Brett (poor guy will want to die going to jury with all those FOUTTE/Hive people).

Tyler will use his GBM to tell Brett that JC told him everything & the sad part was he only wanted Brett to take out Angela & then he wanted Brett out next. Then he'll drop the bomb & say I never had a problem taking out Angela when the time was right, but the problem is I do have a solid F2 since Day 1 ---- but it's with Kaycee, so when you said she had to go we had to act first.

Brett will be bitter initially, but he'll come around. I kind of hope it happens (even though I love Brett) but ONLY if we get ample jury coverage b/c you know Mrs. Smith (Rocky) is going to try to go at Brett & now that he doesn't have to be nice he'll go nuts on her.

[beckyd30]

There aren't goodbye messages for the second person evicted in a double eviction are there?

[TTOTambz]

Not on the live show (b/c they don't know whose leaving) but I'm pretty sure they record them that night & the evictee sees them the next day b/c they don't go directly to jury. they spend time with a psychologist upon exiting, a night in the hotel then do press like Off the Block with Ross & what's her name Marisa? (shes so annoying) .Anyway, there has to be somewhere where they view them bc Scottie told them he saw all their messages & told them parts of the msgs aside from the 4 they show with Julie. Unless Scottie was BS'ing but I seem to recall other seasons where someone left in DE & people were crying about their GBMs (like the time they blindsided Judd).

[lyriele2]

I will say that if Tyler does not win this game, he will, in my opinion, be the best player who did not win. LOL . I really hope he pulls it out, cuz that would just be a perfect end to a great season. 😉

[TTOTambz]

I agree lyriele2 What Tyler did this week IMHO was masterful game play. His adeptness at recognizing each person's desires, weaknesses and what buttons to push I think rivals the very best to ever play this game. And still b/c of a bitter jury he might not win.

Just in the past few days he has:

Convinced Brett he is with him and has Brett protecting their connection when discussing it with JC. This is evidenced by Brett uttering out loud he'd prefer to go to F4 with JC/Sam over Angela/KC. And, b/c Tyler has Brett thinking Angela is more important to him Brett suggests taking out KC in the DE.

As a side note - you can't really blame Brett for trying to move himself deeper in the game - but Tyler never wanted Brett going past F5 (IMHO) b/c of his date knowledge. If you recall back when Brett/Winston were on the block the initial preference from Tyler was to keep Winston until he realized Winston had no true loyalty to L6 whereas Brett did and would be a bigger target for FOUTTE.

Armed with the knowledge Brett can't refute, he goes to his true F2 partner (KC) telling her all the nuggets he's been speaking to this point about JC-Brett are true and she is who Brett wants out. This allowed Tyler to get the most loyal of the L6 group to commit to take Brett out earlier. He also reinforces with KC they may have to lose Angela in the worst case scenario. Knowing KC is his equal as a competitor this was a critical step taken by Tyler which only serves to cement their F2 never shifting. It also allowed Ty to reinforce he would save HER if the two are on the block. B/c this duo recognize Angela can't be told everything upfront it also serves to reinforce their bond & that Tyler shares ALL with her and ONLY her.

To that end, Angela is unable to hold back her true feelings (particularly anger) so Tyler has her completely focused on JC b/c he needs those two only looking at each other. Like everyone else in the house she doesn't see Ty-Cee & will expect both of them to take her to F2 should she reach F3. Tyler will want her to win DE HOH (ideally) so she gets the blood on her hands for nominating Brett (although KC/Ty will be the ones to vote him out via the backdoor if the opportunity is presented).

If Tyler can win POV to remove JC from the block it will also serve to reinforce with JC that he has his back (even if he won't like how it happens). I haven't figured out if Tyler will want JC out at F5 or if he'll want him to win HOH so he can pick off Angela. Something tells me one of JC or Sam will end up going with Ty & KC to F3 and possibly both to F4. The trio do know the jury would vote for Sam - but does Tyler believe the jury would vote for JC? I wonder. TPTB will likely want Ty, KC & Ang going to F3 one would presume b/c it offers the best competitors going deep in the game from the L6 alliance and offer drama over whether either or Ty or KC would cut the other to take the one person the jury doesn't want to reward more than any other.

I still think Tyler is counting on KC not being a great speech maker and the fact he'll be able to showcase his comp prowess in addition to his game strategy and manipulation. Just like we've noted all game many in the jury saw Ty as being gullible -so too do they see KC as a follower. Bitter jury & all if it's KC/Ty/Ang in F3 and he is the one to cut his showmance to take his true F2 partner that may be precisely what the jury needs to reward him with the top prize particularly if he & KC enter with equal comp wins (or he has more) and then can speak to how he was the one driving the nominations/evictions.

Even if Brett/JC are bitter the fact Tyler would cut Angela given they both think he is in a showmance would resonate and I think it would also get him Fes, Haleigh and Scottie.

BB20 could well be the final season and if it is - my hope is Tyler will be rewarded as playing one of the most intricate games ever (and as one of my favorite players). I've marveled at Tyler's game subtleties and maturity at 23. The fact no one ever wants to not protect him is incredible to me and speaks to how adept he is at making each player feel safest with him.

Whether he wins or not, he lands in my top three BB players all-time.

[Dog Lover]

--When you say BB20 could be the last season because of the CBS drama or because it's run its course? I personally have felt like this is one of the best groups they have cast in many many years.

--What is JC referring to when he says "that's going to happen 100%"?
I saw that on be bad but I couldn't hear what he was referring to

--Does FOUTTE mean anything specific? I was absent that day of BB.

--For what its worth, I also think it could be dangerous to keep JC in the game longer than DE.
--Who would Brett nominate if he did win the HOH?
He's one of those people that I really need to see their diary room to be absolutely sure where they stand. He's very good at 'spin' in a face-to-face setting.

I attach these questions Ott's posts but I'm anxious to hear from anyone that has thoughts about any of the thoughts/questions.

[Toober]

I can't read the updates here or on Twitter. Too sad. I really, really, really hope Brett throws a wrench into this weeks plan. Love Tyler but I don't want Brett to leave the way TTOTambz is calling the play.

[misscmm]

Once again.. TY is a fool to take KC. She’s sweet, thoughtful, caring and a comp beast. People say she was too quiet at the beginning but people always remember the last thing that happened. Plus, except for Faysal... the girls want a girl to win.

[TTOTambz]

I like all of the L6 remaining members and had Brett ranked higher than Kaycee until this past week when he let JC make him paranoid.
While Kaycee has played a great game the only reason I see her beating Tyler is via a bitter jury who refuses to recognize game manipulation or nuances.

I'm not saying that this particular jury won't go in that direction, but if Dr. Will (or whoever) does there job then presumably the jury will look to reward the best OVERALL player.

Given that, my five questions for Kaycee are this:

1) Other than being part of L6 what did you do PUBLICLY prior to week 9 in the game? (her first POV & I say publicly b/c she didn't reveal she won the Hacker)
2) Which players did you specifically pinpoint as needing to go and what did you personally do strategically to make this occur?
3) What did you do to save your alliance or alliance members?
4) Within the L6 alliance name one time you drove the mandate on who should leave next?
5) Tyler made moves throughout the game to protect you specifically - what did you do specifically to protect him?

Tyler can answer each of those questions, KC can answer number three via the hacker app (but let's not forget she still sat on the block that week with her alliance needing to vote to keep her).

Again, I love Kaycee - heck I love Brett he just started playing too late in my estimation. I like Angela, but IMHO she made big, bold moves without concern about feelings which made her disliked and was silly by letting her game go to get close with Tyler. I don't like how Fes (early part of his speech only) or Scottie targeted her on their way out the door. But, I'd still rank her fourth behind Brett despite her comp wins. Ideally, I'm hoping for a F2 of L6 (Ty/KC) and yeah I'd probably be disappointed if those two weren't F2 b/c how often do we get the game's best alliance/players arriving in those chairs. Still, if Brett managed to survive I would be happy for him. That said, like the questions I have for KC I could pose the same ones to Brett and Angela. In each case they can answer one or two, but ultimately it's Tyler who made the early moves for L6 to become the house's power (numbers) and who aligned with players like Sam/JC to get what L6 needed to retain those powers. AND, it's his moves late in the game which will again protect the ladies to remain in the house & maintain control.

In my perfect world Tyler wins, Kaycee gets second and Brett gets AFP b/c I'd like to see three of the four win something. My personal preference always leans more to the strategic side of the game, hence why I value Tyler's game on a higher arc. He played from day one, week one. And, while I recognize so many values in KC beyond her comp wins like her kindness, being able to retain secrets, loyalty and love the way the duo play together I can't say she played a better game than Tyler b/c her life in the game (and L6's for that matter) was more often than not somehow tied to Tyler's moves. That for me is why it's not even close - at least if I'm a juror.

[Walleye]

Dr. Will has had little effect that last few years. I would be happy with any two L6 to be at the end. Just for me personally, I’d like JC out on the double.

[Border57]

I agree with you on most of that, but to my mind Brett is behind Angela in importance to L6. She's won more comps and has not abandoned L6 whereas Brett hasn't won too much, really. You have to get the HOHs to move a whole alliance ahead. Where would any of L6 be without her HOHs? And now Brett wants to break L6 up before it's necessary.

I admire loyalty in this game more than much else. That's why Derrick and Cody were so great: They went together the whole way, and when there was a chance to break up at the end, they stayed together. THOSE are the great players, in my book. Brett is a good player, but he's a rat player, and turning on his alliance now could be seen very early on, IMO.

[lyriele2]

In my perfect world, it is a Ty / KC final 2, with the jury somehow finding the insight and intelligence ( and oh boy, is that a stretch with this stinger of a jury LOL) to give Tyler the grand prize.

[SmilemakerRDH]

Kaycee, Tyler and Angela are getting WAY to ****y. I like Tyler and Kaycee but geez...they both know better than to assume anything in this game. Personally now I’m hoping Brett wins the DE HOH now just to piss them off cause they basically already have him in the jury house. I think they are dumb to keep JC around, I don’t know why but I just feel like it’s going to bite them in the butt. I just don’t think he has shown his full potential in comps yet cause he hasn’t needed to. I don’t think Sam is really trying either but I’m not sure she wants to. I really can’t tell with her anymore.
I don’t understand why Tyler wants to go Final 3 with 2 girls when it was widely talked about early on in the house how they wanted a girl to win.

[belle1]

I don’t think Tyler takes JC to F3 because of JC’s connection with KC. I still think Sam is in Tyler’s F3 mix.

[Walleye]

Tomorrow night is going to be interesting. It worries me that everyone thinks JC can’t win anything. This is going to be a fast HOH comp. I think anyone can win those. This could get real exciting real fast.😀

[herms is here]

I agree. I think that the DE HOH comp is anyone's to win. They have been switching it up between questions and a physical comp that can be done quickly. I am glad to see that they are targeting Brett, even though I like him, I like Sam more.

[TTOTambz]

The conversation between JC and KC is entertaining if nothing else and may serve to move him ahead of Sam in the boot order if he keeps it up.

First JC says he has no idea what Brett would do if he won HOH that he (JC) might be on block with KC and elaborates further saying Brett avoids all game talk. (NOTE to JC: you might want to learn the finer nuances of when & how to say things) Even if KC wasn't aware of THEIR plan (Brett/JC) the entire house knows Brett & him are basically joined at the hip of late.

Next (this quite literally made me laugh out loud): He tells KC he's not sure what Angela would do but he's been with her all game & the worst thing she could do is THINK I"M WORKING WITH BRETT and throw me on the block with him. Then he confirms he'd have KC's vote if he's on the block and she would have his. JC caps his myriad of lies by telling her he has no idea what Sam is doing. (knowing it's JC who pulled in Brett & both plan to nom Ang/KC she is doing such a great job of playing along with him )

I hope KC shares this entire convo with Ty b/c it points to how much JC would sell Brett down the river given a shot, how stupid he thinks both Ty & KC are and just how few game nuances JC has. All you have to do is listen to what he says and know you should do precisely the opposite. (NOTE: If it weren't for the back door, DE and need to still massage egos I'd be so tempted to put the pair up right from the get)

JC also has a terrible habit of contradicting himself often in the same conversation. Sometimes he'll say he has no idea what someone is doing or talks no game with him (Brett/Sam). Then moments later he'll say I have their ear I can get them to do what I want they are idiots. I wonder if JC became a victim of his own ego b/c TPTB got him to do those funny early DR sessions. He sure doesn't give many people credit, but his paranoia this evening is palpable and b/c of it he's making copious errors.

[TTOTambz]

Angela just told Tyler she is IN LOVE with him~!