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**KeninVA** · 08-02-2015, 07:44 AM

Morning all,

With PoV played, and punishments in the house, there will not be much gaming until sometime late tonight. James won PoV, and his announced intention is to keep noms the same. Clay and Shelli are going to try to get James to put up Steve, by offering him a deal, which they intend to honor, to target the other side of the house, if he will keep them. I don’t think it is going to work, but stranger things have happened. With punishments in place, the biggest gamer, Vanessa, will be unable to even attempt to help get Shelli or Clay replaced, and the approach being pursued by Clay is probably going to fail. Noms are not until Monday though, and things can change. Vanessa has a small window, and she might be able to get James to go after Becky,

James has damaged his deal making ability, with Austin openly saying to the twins, and Vanessa, why should my deal be any good with him, when he did this, meaning crossed Shelli/Clay on their deal. Meanwhile, Vanessa has a complicated deal with James, that involves not putting him up, if she is HoH. She decides to interpret that as being allowed to backdoor (really use him in a re-nomination), and to protect 1 person, 1 time, within the next four weeks. The flaw in this is that once James gets the boot, he won’t be there to use the friend protection part of the deal, and he is very likely to be gone next week, unless Meg or Jackie win HoH.
Not much action today, other than Shelli having to complete her punishment, which is going to be brutal towards the end.

Once noms are set on Monday, Vanessa will continually make the rounds to keep Shelli in the game. Silent Six, will be merged with Freaks and Geeks (SS minus Shlay, plus Steve) to be the new Silent Six. They appear to be weathering this storm, and have not broken so far. Clay is back on the Vanessa train, after briefly hopping off after noms, and now is working Jmac to stick with the Shelli, which has the potential to bring him into Vanessa’s fold.

Briefly this morning, Becky continued sticking the knife in Vanessa, and Shelli is starting to buy into the line that Vanessa is too emotional to play the game with her, and that you can't really trust Vanessa. Something to watch this week.

Can a mod make this sticky and close yesterday's thread, hope I am not jumping the gun.

**aprilshowers** · 08-02-2015, 07:49 AM

Morning all. I find it interesting that Steve is the only person out there with Clay supporting Shelli right now and he is the person that they are going to try to get James to put up so they can send him home.

**KeninVA** · 08-02-2015, 07:51 AM

Steve knows Shlay and Becky were conspiring against him tonight. He does not say what he is going to do to disrupt the plan, but Becky maybe cruising for a backdoor, potentially. Steve had a good convo with James, which is what sealed the straight up attack against Shelli and Clay, so Steve might be able to turn this to his advantage.

**TTOTambz2** · 08-02-2015, 08:20 AM

Ken, I have a couple of questions I'd love your take on.

First: I saw your response to my post last night... wasn't sure if you saw my response/question....

The conversation I meant was one between Jackie & James and in fairness it was an update I read. In it they said James told Jackie he was choosing her as his plus 1 & told her the deal included him being safe to F7 & protecting him plus one (Jackie) AND that he could have influence on 4 decisions. It's possible they misinterpreted the F7 and 4 decisions, but it listed both.

Is there a chance they had more than one conversation about "the deal"?

2) What are your thoughts on what James should do once Shlay ask for either Steve to go or Clay's proposed "vote me out, save Shelli" deal. Is there anything James can say to Vanessa/Austin that would ensure they vote out Shelli without threatening to put up Liz or Vanessa? It's a slippery slope b/c in my mind if he says that he'll lose their vote regardless. Personally I think he leaves them both on the block & lets the chips fall where they may.

3) Given Steve knows Becky is out to get him & she is closer to Shelli is there a chance he tells Vanessa they are plotting against her in order to shift Vanessa to take out Shelli & then target one of Becky/JMac in DE?

4) I know we see the James renege differently as I believe Shlay did renege on promises made & did lie to him. Even since the nomination Clay has lied repeatedly. The danger I see from this week is if Austin/Twins/Becky & Vanessa all vote the other way then everyone is lying which means Vanessa can't use her "my word is my integrity" any longer. And it establishes the rest of the season to never honor any deals by anyone. Thoughts?

**~Linden~** · 08-02-2015, 08:32 AM

I don't know why they all see James as the liar in this house. Let me rephrase that. The HUGE LIARS of this season are trying very hard to paint James as the only liar of the season. They make my head hurt. I don't mind them lying, but don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. They are all liars and deal breakers. Get over yourself.

**~Linden~** · 08-02-2015, 08:33 AM

Oh, and, if Austin is really *messing with* Liz while she's sleeping, I'm pretty sure that's assault. He should be removed from the house. I haven't personally seen it so I say *if*.

And BB needs to say Nooooooo! or AAAAAANNNNNNNNNNTTTTTTTTTT when he starts it at the very least. (You know, that noise I make at my dog as he's about to pee on my rug)

**nonobadfish** · 08-02-2015, 08:42 AM

Morning, Linden, Livsy, TTO, Ken and April (and others to follow). I know you think that the Six are still sticking together, Ken, and I think they talk like they are (for now). But I'm curious about what's bugging Austin. In private with Vanessa not around, Austin asks if they should vote the way James wants. Liz answers that she doesn't know...that they need to talk about it. So I'm not 100% sure that we've seen the actual and true Sixth Sense fallout caused by either Shelli/Clay going home. I think the hit of losing one of their power members is going to reverberate and make small, but noticeable, chinks in their loyalty to the plan. (I just can't see a realistic path for both Shelli/Clay to stay. Maybe that's wishful thinking on my part, but gracious that would take a monumental shift in James.)

Here's why I think the weakness in the Six is evident:

1.In quick conversations with Vanessa, Austwins say they are all sticking together and voting out Clay. But when she's not around, they're not sure. And Vanessa is riding Austin too hard, and he can't possibly like the way she talks to him.

2. Vanessa is quietly laying groundwork with Jackie/Meg/James that Shelli/Clay/Austwins don't know about. It looks like (to me) that she is uncertain that her alliance is strong, and she's covering all bases just in case.

3. Clay is not 100% sure of Vanessa, and says things to Shelli like, "I don't trust her" or "Vanessa's too emotional." Add Becky's undermining of Vanessa to that mix, throw in a dash of Shelli Paranoia, and who knows where Shelli's mind will be by Thursday?

4. There's going to be some re-grouping if Clay goes. JMac is a wild card. I think he really likes Clay, but I don't think he's tied to Shelli and for some reason he's letting Becky speak ill of Vanessa, even chiming in some. Will that cause the Sixth Sense to split if anyone outside of their alliance wins HoH? (Vanessa is tied to Steve, and Shelli is tied to Becky, but Austwins have nobody else....and I think they can be won over by whoever is in power.)

Having said all of that, I still come back to my only goal for this week: I want either Clay or Shelli to go home because I'm tired of them as a couple on my screen with their claims of being golden. If we also get, as a side result, the weakening of Sixth Sense due to losing a power member, then that's an added bonus. (I just don't have a lot of faith in Austwins as alliance members. Their minds aren't in the game. They might as well be Megs). I do think Clay leaving gives us more interesting feeds because there may be more game in Shelli that we haven't gotten to see before. Of course, she might turn into a sobbing mess. Or if Shelli goes, then maybe Clay becomes a better player? Who knows.

It's a new game now, though. Thank you, James!!!!!!

**KeninVA** · 08-02-2015, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by TTOTambz2

Ken, I have a couple of questions I'd love your take on.

First: I saw your response to my post last night... wasn't sure if you saw my response/question....

Is there a chance they had more than one conversation about "the deal"?

No, James is just inarticulate. I went back this morning, when I saw your comments, and rewatched the scene, she originally offered him, to not nominate him, in her next HoH, no matter when it was, even in Final 3. Of course the final HoH doesn't nominate anyone, and the F4 PoV HoH doesn't either, and the F4 PoV holder doesn't nominate, they evict. But the feeds went to fish for a minute, and when they came back, she said O.K. how about the deal outline. No nomination for him and a HG of his choice, the next time she is HoH, until the house gets down to 7. It is only good for her first HoH between 11 and 7, and only that one time.

2) What are your thoughts on what James should do once Shlay ask for either Steve to go or Clay's proposed "vote me out, save Shelli" deal. Is there anything James can say to Vanessa/Austin that would ensure they vote out Shelli without threatening to put up Liz or Vanessa? It's a slippery slope b/c in my mind if he says that he'll lose their vote regardless. Personally I think he leaves them both on the block & lets the chips fall where they may.

I agree, he is not likely to go for the deal, especially since he crossed them. It would be really difficult for me, if I was James, to believe they would not do to me what he did to them, and especially under pressure. I know, for me, I would never believe they would keep the deal if they had to choose between me, or one of their allies.

3) Given Steve knows Becky is out to get him & she is closer to Shelli is there a chance he tells Vanessa they are plotting against her in order to shift Vanessa to take out Shelli & then target one of Becky/JMac in DE?

I don't think she would ever target Shelli this early. If Clay goes, Shelli is going to fall to Vanessa. We see her with Becky now, but Vanessa will remind her, Becky has not actually done anything for her, where as Vanessa has. Shelli actually gets paranoid, and then comes back to reality. I have been watching her do it with Clay, the last hour. She always comes back to Vanessa being on her side. I actually think though, that this gives Vanessa, and maybe Steve, the opportunity to throw Becky under the bus. And, that might make a real difference.

4) I know we see the James renege differently as I believe Shlay did renege on promises made & did lie to him. Even since the nomination Clay has lied repeatedly. The danger I see from this week is if Austin/Twins/Becky & Vanessa all vote the other way then everyone is lying which means Vanessa can't use her "my word is my integrity" any longer. And it establishes the rest of the season to never honor any deals by anyone. Thoughts?

I am not familiar with the deal Austin and the twins made, but they are not playing the game the same way as Vanessa. Vanessa has never promised a vote, and frankly, promising votes are actually worthless. If the vote to evict is 7-2, every person that promised to vote his way will swear they did. He can't prove how the votes went, so he can't be sure they performed their end of the deal. What I do know, Austin and the twins have said, James doesn't honor deals, so we don't have to honor deals with him. James knows he has put that target on himself now. He is worried about it, and has talked to Vanessa, and Austin and the twins about it.

TT, my reply interspersed in your quotes above.

**Livzee** · 08-02-2015, 08:51 AM

I think Vanessa's flaw may be her inability to stop talking and manipulating. It's getting on our nerves but starting to get on everyone's nerves. She's acting like a different version of Audrey.

**~Linden~** · 08-02-2015, 09:04 AM

I agree Livzee. It irritated us first because we see all of it. It took longer for them to see it because they get breaks in between and don't see all of everything she says and does. I just really don't like Shelli, Vanessa, Austin or Becky at this time. No necessarily in that order. And anything can change. It's a long game.

**KeninVA** · 08-02-2015, 09:09 AM

What bothers Shelli is the arrogance. Talking about James in power.

**KeninVA** · 08-02-2015, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by nonobadfish

(I just can't see a realistic path for both Shelli/Clay to stay. Maybe that's wishful thinking on my part, but gracious that would take a monumental shift in James.)

Having said all of that, I still come back to my only goal for this week: I want either Clay or Shelli to go home because I'm tired of them as a couple on my screen with their claims of being golden. If we also get, as a side result, the weakening of Sixth Sense due to losing a power member, then that's an added bonus. (I just don't have a lot of faith in Austwins as alliance members. Their minds aren't in the game. They might as well be Megs). I do think Clay leaving gives us more interesting feeds because there may be more game in Shelli that we haven't gotten to see before. Of course, she might turn into a sobbing mess. Or if Shelli goes, then maybe Clay becomes a better player? Who knows.

It's a new game now, though. Thank you, James!!!!!!

Nono, the path to both staying is straight forward. They make a good deal to James, focusing on them being votes in Jury, promises to not go after him and Meg, and maybe some other stuff. The deal seems to morph a lot, with Clay definately willing to say anything, and go back on it, and Shelli, only willing to promise what she will actually perform on. But, if James opens his mind to it, especially given Meg's desire to keep Clay in, then possibilities open up. Vanessa can help to throw Becky under the bus, and Steve is going to make sure that James knows, Becky was involved in intense game talk with them tonight. He knows it was game talk, because they were all chatting as he was walking around, and then Becky asked him to go inside to get something, and Shelli smirked. When he came back out, they stopped. If Meg, Vanessa (assuming he talks to her, which I just think he will) and Steve, are able to point to Becky, and Vanessa vouches for Clay and Shelli as sticking to their word, Becky might be at signing autographs at an A&F store in Denver next week.

The game will be different because Clay, Shelli, and Vanessa will be very constrained on targets, but it won't fundamentally change. It will just open up more.

**KeninVA** · 08-02-2015, 09:36 AM

Shelli giving Clay bad advice right now. You guys are in the BB house. "You can bounce checks!"

**crissykins** · 08-02-2015, 09:44 AM

Imo, if james wants either of them specifically out he needs to take the other down and put Liz up so Austin & Julia will for sure vote for the one remaining on the block

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