Live Feed Discussion-August 3

[KeninVA]

Well, Well,

Not sure if I am Vanessa, what I do. Not sure if I am James what I do. (Not the noms, the aftermath). I absolutely think keeping noms the same, for James was his best bet. He keeps his deal with Vanessa, and can make her public enemy number one next cycle if Jackie wins HoH (I have no hope for Meg). I don't think Becky will want to win, and risk not being able to play in the DE, and won't have to out her position in the game as the rat.

James is going to stew and fret about the rat after noms. Eventually, they will figure out it is Becky, I think. It may take Dumb and Dumber (James and Meg) a while to piece it together, but enough has come out to expose her. If James and Meg go back to his first HoH pattern, after noms are set, James, Meg and Jackie are going to isolate themselves again, and then Meg will wonder, why after Jason left, she suddenly talked more with every other HG in the last 3 days, then she has in the last 3 weeks.

James actually, ends up in worse shape. We know, and he does not, that Shelli and Clay would have been good for the deal, and probably would have started targeting Becky and Jmac as soon as ADC plus, won a few back to back comps. But, Jackie was correct to note they were not all in, still trying to straddle a line (in this case a triangle between SS, ADC and Becky/JMac (who have a name I think but I don't know it.). So, on reflection, maybe this is a push. He must know though that not knowing who is betraying him (in truth both Meg and Becky betray him, Becky with info, Meg with planned actions).

Vanessa, Austin, the twins and Shlay are the wild card for me. Shelli has already confessed to Vanessa, and if you have to ask ''Are you mad at me?'' you probably don't need the answer. Vanessa is on a sinking ship. I also hope she puts together the obvious 1. Shelli specifically asked for safety for Clay, her and Jmac on the wall. 2. Shlay are more willing to sell out an internal alliance member than an external rider (Becky) which is the point of having an external rider. 3. Shelli and Clay are withholding information important to Vanessa's game, not just theirs. I hope at the least, she confronts Shelli about Becky and Jmac and sees if she lies to her. I am a big fan of Open Games, which almost never get used in BB, but in this instance, putting everthing on the table that Vanessa knows, as well as Austin and the twins, and Becky and Jmac, lets the house reconfigure. And, I suspect, a few cycles playing together would bond James and Vanessa and Meg, and insulate her from Jackie.

Feeds, from a game perspective are going to be fun this week. So much for the RHONYC I think.

[cutencuddly]

.. RHONYC ?

[KeninVA]

Real Housewife's of NYC. My second guilty pleasure, but a pale comparison to a night of scheming and plotting on the feeds.

[TTOTambz2]

Oh it's going to be Shelli leaving for sure (can barely contain my happiness over that). Ken I know you had much more belief in SS not turning on each other than I did and what happened last night/early this morning was why.

Shlay couldn't have handled this any worse than they did.

1) First they decide to throw Steve UTB & this simply b/c they are aligned with SS as well as BeckMac so with ADC in power it was all they had. And they tell James/Meg they have NO ONE in the game. It was hard not to howl in laughter at this especially b/c point 5 highlights how they are MAJOR LIARS ... something they keep claiming they aren't. Oh and this nonsense about you lose our vote for nominating us is inane.... I just wish once James would say so anyone you nominate shouldn't get your vote at the end? Right?

2) Then (as I predicted) Shelli got pissy & started making shots at the twins about not protecting them & trying to save them now that they are in jeopardy, despite the fact they were told they would be the replacement. I mean after all everyone is supposed to be playing for the Golden Couple right? I knoooooooooooooow

3) Clay then stupidly tells JMac about the DM & blames Vanessa for creating the alliance (knowing BeckMac are against her), but is so clueless he outs Becky was in it.

4) Then Shlay lower their anger on Austin making him feel guilty about not fighting for them in almost a threatening way which makes him go to James in a half-assed attempt to push for Steve to go out, but it's obvious it's not really what he wants

5) Right after Austin does this James tells Meg who then lets Shlay know there is hope but James needs DETAILS. So up they Golden Couple march to the HOH to out Judas to James & repeat the whole thing again for Meg & Jackie minutes later.

6) Afterward Shelli runs down to tell her 1B what they've done which in essence is something they should have discussed PRIOR to outing.

Soooooooooooooooo, I'm not surprised and no this changes nothing b/c fortunately all it did was confirm the details Audrey told James. What it did do is give clarity for ADC regarding why things occurred.

Moving forward:

* Now ADC understand how the house worked though they've yet to figure out Becky's involvement however I won't be surprised if in the frenzy following the POV ceremony if Vanessa won't out Becky so the target stays off her. ADC know the Austwins, Vanessa & Shlay were all together.

* There's no way Austin doesn't find out b/c either Vanessa or one of ADC will tell him Shelli sang like a bird with the result now being she will be the evictee on Thursday since she's sold out Austin (so that's him & the twins voting her out) & now I highly doubt Vanessa will want to keep her in the house b/c if Shelli would do that to Austin w/o giving her prior knowledge then she'll do it to Vanessa if she stays!

* For ADC as much as they fumble they've unearthed the power alliance & should be able to align with the Austwins who now will be extremely grateful James didn't shift to put him on the block.

* It won't take Vanessa long to decipher ADC know everything but are still choosing to keep her safe so she'll need to do major damage control which as mentioned I expect will be her blowing up Becky's game (unless she shocks us all & tries to work with her/JMac)

* Let's see how JMac deals with learning Shelli & Clay weren't just in DM but also SS, but never told him any of it. He might end up feeling a lot of empathy for ADC recognizing they figured out Shlay were playing all sides just one week sooner w/o the details. I still envision him targeting Vanessa but he may pull away from Becky and/or Clay

The best news for James is this discovery will likely cause such a storm of drama it should protect him & his ladies while all the big players now face off. It's likely this outing of info will create an inseparable divide between Austin/Vanessa and Clay and depending on how Becky/JMac take the news will they trust Clay? Though I suspect they'll target Vanessa. It should actually buy ADC and Steve some time to sit back and watch the fireworks!

[KeninVA]

I am not sure Shelli goes still. Vanessa got Shlay to forgive Austin, she might be able to get Austin to forgive Shelli. And in truth, what they gave up was innocuous. If I am Austin and the twins, after Pov ceremony, noms are set, and time to regroup and figure out who do they want gone. They will know it was not just Shelly, but Shelly and Clay. And if Clay stays, he is done with them. Shelli cannot give up on Vanessa, and so now she can be reeled back in, and I assure you, if she is HoH next week, James and Jackie on the block, with Meg as renom, Meg will be sucking up to them.

[TTOTambz2]

Yes Ken, but you thought SS wouldn't turn on each other. Trust me James & ADC will focus on Shelli being the songbird (because they want her gone) plus she was the reason Austin became the target last week originally as well. After she went after Julia last night they were not impressed. While it's true they tend to flip flop with the wind if you recall as soon as Jason did something they didn't like the twins became laser focused on getting him out. I could be wrong but IMO they'll work with ADC & I think Vanessa will focus their efforts on JMac/Becky should they win the next HOH (unless Clay or Shelli do even more damage)

[emptysuit]

I like to see as much "equilibrium" in the house as is possible. I don't like watching one huge alliance crushing floaters or a much smaller alliance. My hope was to watch the SS unravel. I believe if Clay and Shelli had completely "come clean" and if they were sincere about working with the summer camp kids (James, Meg and Jackie), we could see a much more interesting game. If Clay and Shelli were willing to expose the SS, and James took down Clay with Vanessa as a replacement, I believe he could reset the house with a titanic fight for power. As it stands, if they go through with a Shelli eviction, they (the summer camp kids) will continue to be the primary targets for just about everyone in the house. An alliance with Clay and Shelli (if it is legitimate) that would bring in Jmac and Becky would give them the numbers and could possibly prolong their life in the game. It may be too late, but I wish James could tell them one more time that they have to reveal everything if they wish to avoid eviction.

[cutencuddly]

When exactly did Becki turn rat?

Was it in gratitude for Clelli doing something for her?

[~smee~]

Becky said she owed loyalty to Clelli because they kept her safe last week. Little does she know that Vanessa was actually the one who did not want to go back on their word to her, Clelli might have let her go.

[nonobadfish]

Well, Well,

James actually, ends up in worse shape. We know, and he does not, that Shelli and Clay would have been good for the deal, and probably would have started targeting Becky and Jmac as soon as ADC plus, won a few back to back comps. But, Jackie was correct to note they were not all in, still trying to straddle a line (in this case a triangle between SS, ADC and Becky/JMac (who have a name I think but I don't know it.). So, on reflection, maybe this is a push. He must know though that not knowing who is betraying him (in truth both Meg and Becky betray him, Becky with info, Meg with planned actions).

I think it's close to a win for James, but at the very least a push. No way he ends up worse than he was because I have no faith that Shelli/Clay would have kept that deal. They haven't kept a deal yet except with Vanessa, so why would they be expected to keep this one? My guess is that Shelli/Clay would have continued to straddle the fence, but their main allegiance would have been to Vanessa...James would have found himself in the exact same position he was before he won HoH. At least now James knows about the Sixth Sense (without knowing the name). Knowledge is power. (I know Becky is a rat, but she seems so minor to me that I have trouble seeing what real damage she does to anyone. Let her rat about everything...she'll eventually get caught.

[nonobadfish]

When Austwins find out that Shelli/Clay betrayed Austin, who gets voted out? Shelli or Clay?

[TTOTambz2]

Shelli was the song bird & Shelli was the one who told Vanessa she sang...... bye bye birdie! (Shelli)

[~smee~]

Depends; I think they might vote Shelli out, because Austin's feelings will be hurt, and he won't want to give Clelli what they say they want (which is for Clay to fall on his sword for Shelli). But they could very easily be swayed by V into keeping S. They are pretty persuadable (read: gullible).

[TTOTambz2]

Emptysuit: I think the song James has been singing about constantly sharing info with Shlay & never getting anything back will resonate with those outside SS. I don't see how James or ADC are a target for Austwins especially if they save him. The twins tend to react as things occur & don't take kindly to being treated a certain way. Shelli really blew her position with the twins last night by calling out Julia for not going to bat hard enough to save her (while Shelli knows James said it would be her sister Liz that would be the re-nom). That resulted in Julia saying Shelli attacked her, calling her a biiiiiiiiiooooooooooooooocccccccccccccccccchhhhhhh hh & now is happy to vote her owwwwwwwwwwwwwut. lol

The ADC don't hold Austin in the same vein b/c he was fighting for his life based on what Shelli/Vanessa were saying (that Jackie was privy to hearing) and they'll continue to reiterate that intel with the Austwins which will only garner their allegiance IMO. Like Meg has reiterated many times ADC never felt the Austwins or Vanessa were as accountable since they didn't have a deal with them.. they did with Shlay. And whether you want to call it an alliance or not the bottom line Shlay treat EVERYONE in this manner: they are constantly looking for intel & loyalty from everyone else, but give none in return (except to Vanessa basically). And unless I'm way off about Vanessa she knows Becky/JMac are on to her so I envision her trying to align with ADC & work with them/Austwins to take out Clay, JMac/Becky.

That's my read, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see BeckMac once their outed (and they will be) wanting to work with ADC as well. Since they'll have a similar story. And if JMac doesn't piece together that Clay can't even remember the alliance Jackie, Jeff, Shlay and him had & didn't share the DM alliance then I've given him much more credit than he deserves!

In essence this whole broken public promise has the potential to be seen by the house as a key to resetting everyone's game as literally everyone in the house can see Shlay have deals across the board.

I'm dying to see how Becky responds with Jackie inevitably tells her what's up. She might feel pretty stupid she played the rat to the squad who were only going to align with her now b/c Shlay got found out!

[RufusB]

I have a sinking feeling James will wake up and pull Clay down with the POV and put Vanessa up. I will be so disappointed if this happens! I have so much to get done today but am afraid this dumb game is going to put my life on hold again while I constantly check for updates. I do not want Vanessa gone yet because I don't see anyone else in the house who has any strategic thinking abilities and I don't want to watch hamsters stumble around for the remainder of the game. Please James keep noms the same so I have clelli free feeds! Follow their separation with a Steve HOH win and I will be a happy camper!

[TTOTambz2]

I don't think so. Of all the HOH's James always has a clear vision. He joked with the girls, but IMO he'll keep nominations the same & use the intel he received as currency for Vanessa to stay true to her deal (as he will with Austin). They know Shelli will tell Vanessa she outed Austin but I'm sure Vanessa is smart enough to recognize this also outs her game to an extent.

I also believe the discussion with Austin will be spun to be we don't care about what they said b/c they put you in that situation so you were just fighting for your life & I personally think it will draw Austwins even closer to ADC.

If nothing else James comment: IF YOU SHOOT SOMEONE, YOU CAN'T TAKE THE BULLET BACK! pretty much indicates how he thinks.

They know putting up Austin is a waste at this time as it pits 4 players against them in Austwins/Vanessa and they also know putting up Vanessa is only valuable if they take her out since it keeps the couple in the house who they know they can't trust. Leaving the noms the same allows them to show Vanessa he was true to his word of protecting her & expects her to keep her deal and allows them to pull Austwins closer in what could easily have been him getting back doored.

[herms is here]

nonobadfish I agree with you. They were saying how much they just wanted to make it to jury together. Once that was accomplished, I believe that all deals would have been forgotten. To me James is doing the correct thing by keeping the noms the same, but a Shelli, Vanessa match up would have been interesting. In that pairing who would go home?

[KeninVA]

That would really depend on what Vanessa is willing to do. I think if she outed Becky, Clay, Shelli alliance with her, and pointed to Becky Jmac and Clay Jmac (all things she knows directly, including Becky being the one to want James nominated, she would stay, and her and the twinstins would be able to re-align with ADC. I think James would get it. Jackie would be on the warpath with Vanessa anyway, but Jmac might take out Jackie first. Really, post eviciton, the house would be in chaos, with ADC at significant advantage, but it might also force SS plus Jmac together.

[~smee~]

I don't know, but wouldn't it be fun to find out? My bet is V would pull it out today, but tomorrow, who knows and by Thursday the sky's the limit.

[TTOTambz2]

Btw.. did anyone else gag when Shelli told Meg & James "besides, you want to take us both to jury b/c we are so much more fun!"

Delusional much? All she does is order her hand servant around all day. I will be sooooooo happy if she leaves Thursday to a tepid audience. I know the inevitable showdown would be awesome to see, but I'd rather she just wasn't on my TV screen.

[GinaKC]

Ugh, her arrogance! Delusional is right.....

[Kpercyman]

Of course they would go back on the deal. She announced at the nomination ceremony that James goes back on his word. They would just bring it full circle and say just like you we went back on our word. It's elementary BB.

[BBhead]

I think James would be smart to take Clay off and put Vanessa up. If he wants all the answers, that's the way to get them. They came SO close to figuring it out last night, but they're putting it all on Shelli/Clay and very little on Vanessa. A main topic was the Jeff and Jason evictions. They're so bent about Shelli/Clay not telling them ahead of time, but forgetting that it was VANESSA in power for both of those HOH's. Shelli's HOH's, she got rid of Day because of their issue the first week. Her second HOH was Audrey, that the entire house wanted gone. Shelli and Clay felt personally closer to Meg, James, Jason but their real alliance evolved through back to back HOH's with Vanessa. Their struggle has been personal vs. game. Shelli herself, although being to loyal to SS, did not jeopardize James game directly. Vanessa did. I would not be surprised to see a little DR influence this morning before the ceremony to plant seeds about Vanessa in James head.....he is so close, it would not take much. A cage match between Shelli/Vanessa would be awesome!

[emptysuit]

I'm with you BBhead. There are many ways this fight could unfold.

[nonobadfish]

Hey...I'd LOVE a Shelli/Vanessa cage match (what exactly is a cage match? It sounds great whatever it is.). Make it happen!

[BettyBoo]

Hey Nono, a cage match is where the fighters are literally in a cage and can use kicks along with punching, so more brutal than just boxing. Russell from Jordan's season was one which is why he was so bemused when she chest-bumped him. (I think that's when Jeff fell in love w/her too.)

[KeninVA]

Does anyone know the over-under of James changing his mind and putting Vanessa up?

[sdkgeo]

Last I heard he intended to keep them the same. Jackie brought clarity to him. It's never a done deal until the ceremony, but he seemed set when he went to bed.

[nonobadfish]

In my non-gambling world, I don't really know what over-under means. But James teased to Meg/Jackie that he was putting Vanessa up. Then he said, 'Noms are remaining the same' then went to sleep.

My guess is that noms are staying the same (knowing the way James is) unless someone gets to James before then and spills more info.

[KeninVA]

Geo... It is frequently a done deal, to the keening and lamentations of the MoDramaMama's who spent all of S16 DENIED the uncertainty of what was going to happen next. (or S12 for that matter). This group has produced major game drama every week with unpredictable actions and responses. I for one, have no idea what any of them would do. I said 2 days ago, Vanessa needed to get Becky outed, and all this drama would exist, but only on Becky, Clay and Shelli.

[cutencuddly]

Sympathy to everyone who was hoping that JMac was going to turn out to be a savvy mastermind just biding his time before he stepped in to takeover the game.

[KeninVA]

Can I ask, what brought this comment on. I don't have feeds today. (Sneaking looks here, while waiting for DB runs to finish)

[cutencuddly]

He was just out alone on the BY couch, looking like he might be deep in thought. But recent events have made it seem like we better not hope that such reverie is a prelude to good gaming.

[ophelia__]

I sensed all along that he was only good for shouting in the DR. He can be amusing, but not a great game player. He bores me.

[nonobadfish]

I just don't think outing Becky is going to be huge drama. I love huge drama, so I hope I'm wrong. She seems such a small player in the grand scheme of things that I can't see it's going to make a big difference....if they weren't that upset about Austin being two people (Judas as the second), why will they care that much about Becky? (Well, Jackie will...but I'm afraid everyone else will just say, 'Who?')

[Kpercyman]

I just don't get how Shlay thought that they would be upset over the whole Judas thing. It's kind of stupid. There I said it. People that have more than one personality are usually on medication to fix that.

[nonobadfish]

I love the way you think, Kpercyman.

[KeninVA]

The betrayal of a RAT is worse then Clay and Shelli, who are not actively conspiring. And in my scenario, blowing up the house to start over, it puts a secret group of 4 (Jmac/Clay/Becky/Shelli) actively betraying both alliances (Vanessa and the Twinstins, and ADC). If James had been looking to re-orient the house, and not end up being decremented in alternate HoH's, first Shelli, then James, then Vanessa, then Jackie, then Clay, and now the house is ruled by Jmac, Becky, Austin and the twins, he would realize the better approach align ADC with SS minus, and target the other 4. Then get on with fighting it out.

Right now, depending on what actually happens, Shelli and Clay did not reveal any of the inner workings of sixth sense. So, while Becky and Jmac and Steve are safer, James, Meg and Jackie will have to win HOH everytime to survive. Better to attempt to come to an accommodation with Vanessa and her group. I personally don't think they turn Austin or the Twins, against her, meaning they will not use any power they get to target her, it will all be directed at Jackie and James, with Meg left to go back to summer camp.