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  • Live Feed Discussion-August 5

    Here's where you can discuss what's happening on the Live Feeds.
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  • #2
    One of two things needs to happen; these people need to start gaming during the day and sleeping at night, or I need to stop peeking in in the middle of the night when I get up to let the dog out. I'm losing sleep with this group.

    Holy cow, these people. I think Shelli is now going home on Thursday, but I don't know which way it is going to go. Sometimes I wish for the good old days when the HGs were called in to the DR on Wednesday to vote and then I think about some of the last minute flips we've had and I'm over it.


    • beckyd30
      beckyd30 commented
      Editing a comment
      This live voting is highly over-rated.

  • #3
    Good morning all- I do not have a lot to add this morning.

    I hate that I have missed the action the last couple of days. A new month starts tomorrow and I will be able to watch the feeds. These house guest stay up all night and sleep most of the day. If I understand the board, Shelli will be going home Thursday. I hope Vanessa votes with the house. I think her days in the BB house are numbered. Jackie and Becky both are after her, they do not know that if it had not been for Vanessa, one of them would have went home last week instead of Jason. She did not handle that week very well. She should have told Jackie from the get go what was happening and told her how the others wanted her on the block. Vanessa has kept her word to those two, but they think she never keeps her word. This twisted game of BB, love it.

    sdkgeo, I agree. Since there is such a lag between Monday and Thursday, they need to do something. Going backto Wednesday for the vote would be great.

    Thanks to everyone for all your posts, because of you all, I am not completely lost.


    • cutencuddly
      cutencuddly commented
      Editing a comment
      Vanessa has not exactly kept her word to Jackie. Vanessa has lied quite a lot to Jackie. Sure, Vanessa didn't backdoor Jackie, but she lied in oh so many other ways. If Vanessa hadn't given into Shelli's paranoia, she could have really kept her word to Jackie. Then the ADC crew would still be lounging on the couch in the backyard right now, not knowing that the gargantuan three-headed octopus was still lurking in the deep plotting their demise.

  • #4
    Morning, geo and Luanne! I was out most of the day and night, so I missed a lot (obviously). But I'm not one bit shocked that they've flipped to keep Clay (for the moment). This is what I posted yesterday morning: "My gut tells me that Austwins are not set in stone on anything....there is a LONG time until Thursday's vote." And this is what I'm posting THIS morning, "My gut tells me that Austwins are not set in stone on anything....there is LONG time until Thursday's vote."

    Those three (Austwins) are the flippiest people I've ever seen. I would NOT want to be in an alliance with them, especially now that they have decided that they are the most powerful trio in the house with their "Power of Three."

    I haven't had time to read or flashback at all, but we all knew that Austwins really didn't want to rock the boat with the ADC this week, so it makes sense that they would go along with what they promised to do (Vote Shelli out). Plus, we know that Shelli is a good move for Vanessa, but not necessarily a good move for Austwins, so they may be doing themselves a favor here.

    Are they really keeping Clay or are they flipping again, do y'all think? I'm going to try to see what I missed before I have to head to the office.


    • cutencuddly
      cutencuddly commented
      Editing a comment
      Could be my bias based on what I want to have happen, but Austin surely has more affinity with Clay and now that (1) the ADC crew have let him know Shelli was doing all the talking in the HOH room that morning and (2) Clay has assured Austin that he's not targeting Twistin, I think this one has a chance to stick.

    • magoopy
      magoopy commented
      Editing a comment
      I also think that Clay will be staying, or should I say just hoping it is so!

  • #5
    Morning All :-)
    So the twins should be nick named Flip Flop because they change their minds more than anyone in the house. Literally they went from Clay, Shelli, Clay, Shelli and back to Clay in what seemed like an hour.

    Clay finally apologized to Austin & was going to speak to the twins (not sure that happened) and said his targets are ADC.

    Vanessa got caught by Jackie scheming in a room with Austwins & ran to Jackie to troubleshoot saying they were discussing DE. She then congregates everyone in a room except Steve, JMac & Shlay to get agreement on putting up whoever remains from Clelli with JMac & Steve as the replacement in the next HOH. Everyone agreed and Jackie smartly said THIS DEAL INCLUDES BACK DOOR and if Shelli doesn't go the DEAL IS OFF.

    Jackie is on to "Vanessa's Deals" as is Becky. They both note how Vanessa is always the first to make everyone make a deal & call it out for all to hear but when she goes against the deal it's swept under the rug because "she's found a reason". As Becky said last night "IT'S THE SAME OLD CHIT... SHE'S (VANESSA) ALL ABOUT HER WORD UNTIL SHE BREAKS IT!"

    As for this weeks vote the twins see the logic of voting out Shelli when they hear Shelli was the one doing all the back stabbing while a mute Clay just sat nodding & shaking his leg. To appease Austin's worry of Clay winning HOH James says he's just as likely to target him but less likely to win HOH.

    Vanessa promised James she'd vote out Shelli to stay off the block & now has already changed her tune saying she promised Clay to keep Shelli. She got a real undressing from Jackie who said whats the logic of keeping Shelli this week if she's a better competitor? You just promised to put out the remaining Clelli survivor next week so why keep the stronger player & one you are closest to b/c if you win HOH won't that be harder to nominate them? Jackie definitely has Vanessa's number & I suspect Nessa will very shortly get super paranoid especially if anyone outside SS doesn't win HOH since now there are 3 people in the house who recognize Vanessa is the priority boot: James, Jackie & Becky.

    It's obvious Vanessa feels comfortable making this fake deal b/c she's getting the Austwins to be the ones to go back on their word while she gets permission to vote out Clay. As of late last night the twins had shifted back to voting out Shelli, but honestly I think this one will come down to the wire.

    Coming into the meeting Becky wasn't looking at Vanessa as the key target, but based on her discussion after with Jackie/James I suspect she switched when she observed how shady Vanessa was being combined with how strongly Vanessa pushed for JMac to be the pawn beside Clelli on the block. And if Thursday progresses with Clay being voted out Becky will definitely share with JMac that Vanessa was behind the switched vote & I believe that could lead to him also switching to her being the priority vote out. JMac hasn't demonstrated much game play & is adjoined with Clay, but once he learns from Becky of the side deals Shlay had & his buddy was duped by his girl & Vanessa one would imagine it might affect his thought process. Given JMac knows of all the lies and side deals Shlay has made his blind loyalty to Clay is perplexing.

    Of note, I do find it odd Becky doesn't push for Steve to go up over JMac at least with ADC since they seem to think Steve is more controllable. The fact SS is pushing for JMac should be a huge warning sign to Becky just how vulnerable he is.

    Clearly Vanessa ended her second HOH relatively protected & had capably shed the spotlight from herself, but a combination of the SS finally losing power, her sketchiness over worrying about being back-doored led to her making way too many promises/deals & now a day after POV she's already back tracking from those deals looking to make fresh ones which has painted her as shady, untrustworthy and a "do as I say, not as I do" person. Sure she's got great pull with the twins & Shelli but one more ADC or Becky HOH & Vanessa could be in real trouble.

    James was already in the hot seat & Austin's actions had put a spotlight on him. Jackie, JMac & Becky were all targets for SS but now Vanessa is clearly the main target of ADC/Becky so much so that I believe she has literally done herself no favors via her need to control the house via "fake deal making" & will likely be a back door target if any of Meg, Jackie or Becky win this coming week. Factor in JMac will be ticked Vanessa orchestrated Clay's eviction & has been throwing his name out to be the pawn to sit beside Shelli & she might also leap to the top of his list! In fact I suspect there will be a lot of players gunning to win HOH this week including Steve, Becky, JMac, Jackie, Shelli & Vanessa. The Austwins aren't really in much danger so they might want to sit back to await the DE HOH.

    By the way... anyone else find it ironic Shelli waited until 2 nights before eviction to finally put out (kissing Clay). Isn't her timing a little suspicious? I think it was done to keep Clay occupied with her so he isn't out campaigning!

    With apologies to the Vanessa fans I'm praying for a Jackie HOH this week b/c she will put Vanessa & Shelli straight up & the speech would be epic! I wonder if Becky won HOH if Austin would sell out Vanessa & tell of Nessa's plans to out her rat antics in an effort to protect the twins & himself (I have a suspicion he just might!.

    Regardless of who you are pulling for the most drama will come from a non SS win. This week was so much fun, I want another just like it.
    Last edited by TTOTambz2; 08-05-2015, 07:32 AM.


    • #6
      Morning geo, Luanne, and all who follow,

      In a reversal of fortune, Freaks and Geeks is being buffaloed into reversing the vote and voting out Shelli. If Vanessa cannot get them to reverse course, this will end their collective games. After this eviction, Vanessa will go next, then Liz or Austin, then Julia, then Steve. The twins don't see it, Austin does not see it, but Vanessa should see it, and realize by letting Shelli go, they are sunk. Clay will link up with Meg/James in public, and Jmac and Becky in secret, and then the opportunity to run the house down will be lost. And the way BB works, if Shelli goes home, Jackie is going to be HoH and she will backdoor Vanessa, since like James, deals don't mean anything to her, or Becky. If they are not smart enough to see that they are fighting for their lives on this vote, they are done in the game.

      It will be much less interesting for me, since there won't be any real strategy, just gross attrition. I will say, I was caught by surprise at the twins being so willing to turn on Vanessa and Austin this early. But they are young, and not that bright at the game, and so do not understand that only Austin would be willing to ride to final 3 with them. And that no one in ADC is ever going to let one twin stay in the game, once they get the first twin into Jury.

      So, all the action during lock-in today/tonight will be around keeping Shelli in the house (or it should be).


      • TTOTambz2
        TTOTambz2 commented
        Editing a comment

        Vanessa has no one to blame but herself if Shelli leaves Thursday (though I'm still not sure that will be the case) She is so intent on keeping her public persona as one of integrity she screwed the alliance. She was the one who orchestrated the meeting in the HOHR and then made EVERYONE agree to the deal of putting up the remaining Clelli member knowing ADC would say it was contingent on Shelli leaving. Privately she is telling Austwins who cares we are keeping Shelli. But Austin is no fool, he may not recognize game wise why they need to keep Shelli, but he can definitely see he & the twins will be the ones going against their word. He's been fighting Vanessa on it all week b/c he either wants to tell James they can't keep Clay b/c of a, b, c or he wants to follow through.

        Vanessa is only protecting herself by insisting on staying true to her promise to keep Shelli. Her inability to see she paints them as liars & therefore targets is what is making this shift happen. Sure the twins are young but asking them to lie to ADC's faces isn't sitting well with Austin & in fairness he has a point.

        Furthermore, I find it to be the one facet of Vanessa's game she consistently messes up; not recognizing the harm she puts her alliance in. For example she'll be adaptable to take out a target or do what the team wants (keep Austin) but she'll only do it if it meets her goal i.e. stay true to keeping Becky/Jackie safe, not put up Steve because he's her 1B & take out her true target (Jason) & then paint her own alliance as being responsible.

        If she was in Austin's shoes she wouldn't publicly state I promise to keep so & so safe & then blatantly go against that so why should she expect them to do it?
        Last edited by TTOTambz2; 08-05-2015, 06:47 AM.

    • #7
      But Ken, why should all these people be playing for Vanessa to win? If she somehow manages to keep Shelli in the game then Austin and the twins are goners anyway whether it is in two weeks or four weeks. For a lot of the HGs getting Shelli and then Vanessa out of the house is the best thing, as it opens up the game and gives others a chance to play for the win instead of playing for Vanessa to be sitting in the F2 with a goat.

      I don't want to see 1 person controlling the game, I want to see everybody playing and strategizing every week. Last year was boring with Derrick controlling the whole game pretty much start to finish. I'm really enjoying this season with the morphing alliances and players.


      • KeninVA
        KeninVA commented
        Editing a comment
        I don't think they should be playing for Vanessa to win. If I was a Twin, I would recognize, Austin is the only player that won't turn on them, even in F3. That is a gift. Julia does not see it, and has said, if I am HoH, I am targeting Austin. Vanessa is the only player that would consider going to F4 with them, which gives them plenty of time to backstab her before F4. But, right now, the house is at 12 people, and Shelli will stick to them. Vanessa knows it, and we know. She broke down right after the Austin betrayal, and Austin knows that she did it over her "love" for Clay. Which is ridiculous to say, but no less true.

        They know, James does not uphold deals, so any deal he makes with them is null and void when in power. We know, Jackie and Becky believe the same thing. So, no matter how good the twins social game is, there is going to be no interest in keeping them once Austin and Vanessa are out.

        The domino fall is what I described, Shelli, Vanessa, Liz, Austin, Julia, Steve. Clay may very well end up in F4, with Meg, since Clay is a backstabber too, but he might not win.

        I don't expect the twins or Austin to play for Vanessa, but I would expect them to give themselves a chance to stay in the game. With 7 people against them, and 3 people for them, they will be gone. It is as plain as day to me. Meg is not going to put up Clay, Jackie is not going to put up Clay, and so the game will unravel the second they win HoH again, only F&G will have given up a number. The time to strike at Vanessa is F7-F5, after they dump Jackie, Becky, Jmac, and Shelli. Keep James and Meg, with Austin, and the twins, cut Meg, cut Austin, F3 with James, one is in the final 2 chair. That is not going to happen.

        And, I am sorry, I do not view Vanessa as a liar. She is precise in her words, and the alliances she has been in never include blood oaths, like not voting for a turncoat in jury. Becky is a liar, James is a liar, Jackie is not a liar, but she will be. I wonder if Vanessa will go to Jackie in front of the house and get her to swear they won't put any of them up. Jackie won't do it.

        And for me, I have not seen anyone actually strategizing except Vanessa, and Shelli to a lesser extent. The rest of them are just wondering in the wilderness. I saw that in spades during the Jeff boot. None of these people know how to count votes even.

      • nonobadfish
        nonobadfish commented
        Editing a comment
        I agree with you, geo.

        Keeping Shelli really only helps Vanessa (well, and Shelli, obvi ) And then that puts Vanessa/Shelli at the top of that alliance and leaves Austwins as vulnerable. Vanessa KNOWS that Clay has said he will stick with SS, but she's lying to Austwins about that because she knows she can't control him. I don't fault Vanessa at all for this...she's pushing what's best for her and that's the way you play. But it's very much more fun to see one person not get their way all the time. The others need to fight back against her sometimes, especially when it's much better for the twins to vote WITH the house this time so that they don't make unnecessary enemies.
        Last edited by nonobadfish; 08-05-2015, 07:24 AM.

      • KeninVA
        KeninVA commented
        Editing a comment
        Nono, they already have made enemies, the question is not, are they enemies, the question is when do their enemies strike AT THEM. This is no different then Kalia or Howie, voting out an ally, with a strong operating Alliance arrayed against them. With 7 people against them, RIGHT NOW, voting out Shelli and then Vanessa, makes them grist for the mill. Becky, John, James, Meg, and Jackie have all individually, and in groups, recognized the twins have to both go to Jury. That is the definition of common self interest. Vanessa does not actually feel that way, or at least she has not vocalized it. I think she would be willing to give up a sure jury vote to end up in F2 against Julia.

        We can't argue about this, because we are predicting a future we can't see. Maybe Vanessa wins alternate HoH and PoV's down to F4 from F11. I doubt it can happen, but it might. But the twins, with 11 people left on Thursday, voting out Shelli, which gets Vanessa out, and Julia openly talking about voting out Austin, if she is HoH, is not strategy. It is venal foolishness, with no redeeming strategic content to speak off. I actually don't think Vanessa gets to the end, unless she wins out, but putting her in jury first, after sending Shelli home, means the season is done for me.

    • #8
      I do not like a game where one person controls the game. However, I like to watch when it is good gaming going on. For the first five weeks, over half the house thought they were in summer camp, make it to jury and earn a good salary for doing nothing. They only woke up when Jason was put on the block and voted out. I am glad they woke up but am disappointed in how quickly Austin and the twins will turn on the ones that worked so hard to build a strong alliance.


      • #9
        Originally posted by KeninVA View Post
        ..... I will say, I was caught by surprise at the twins being so willing to turn on Vanessa and Austin this early...
        Hey! You didn't say good morning to me!!!!!!

        I understand you being caught by surprise, but you shouldn't have been BECAUSE YOUR FRIEND NONO KEPT TELLING YOU THEY ARE FLIPPY/FLAKY (and I know Flippy/Flaky.)

        If it makes you feel better, though...I'm still not convinced we know which way this vote is going to go. I watched Austwins flip 15 times on Monday (didn't see yesterday), so again: Not set in stone.

        (Although I think the twins would be better voting out Shelli. They don't know it, but they need to break up Vanessa/Shelli or they become low man on that alliance totem pole. And now that JMac wants to nominate Julia, the twins need to not make enemies of the ADC. Vanessa is going to stick with the twins no matter what because she doesn't have anyone else, so their smartest play this week is to keep ADC happy. But I've said that so many times and they haven't really listened to me, so not sure why I'm saying it again."
        Last edited by nonobadfish; 08-05-2015, 07:18 AM.


        • #10
          And why does my JMac keep messing up my plans for him? Just when I jump on the JJ F2 train (John/Julia), Julia agrees with Austin that JMac is a buffoon, and JMac decides he wants to put Julia on the block. And Julia/JMac even have their own hashtag #JuJuMac on twitter now!!!! OBVIOUSLY I am absolutely no good at match-making. Sheesh.
          Last edited by nonobadfish; 08-05-2015, 07:18 AM.


          • augie33
            augie33 commented
            Editing a comment
            I wonder why JMac would choose to get rid of Julia over Liz?

          • magoopy
            magoopy commented
            Editing a comment
            I missed how they want to target each other and I thought they were a good pair!

        • #11
          Good rnorning BBU,

          As I said yesterday, we won't know who is going to do what until the vote. I expect a lot of shake up and playing telephone to be done tonight. As long as Austwins are together in the house there can be no set in stone decision ahead of time.

          Unlike many I didn't find last season boring. I guess it depends on what you want from the game. I have my MoDramaMama card. I enjoy the drama. Some HG's provide that, comic relief and the train wreck effect all of which I truly enjoy about the game. But, I also like the psychological chess game of BB. I was fascinated watching Derrick work last year!! Approximately 255 (I used 15 HG per season as an average x 17 seasons) and he is the ONLY person never nominated. He was never in serious consideration to be nominated...FACINATING! I really enjoy the strategizing, the inner workings and the absolute brilliance. I see BB as a social and psychological experiment and each year I find something to like, to hate, to admire.


          • BettyBoo
            BettyBoo commented
            Editing a comment
            Hi, Twirly, I would call last season frustrating. It was like Derrick was a pro playing with some middle school kids. Yes, he made good plays, but he wasn't competing against a Dan, Will, Danielle or Evil Dick where his game would have been challenged. Good grief, even his closest ally didn't know or believe he was a cop! But we'll always debate if he was that good or were they that bad. In a different mix he may not have been as successful. I still think Dan was best BB player: only winner to have unanimous vote and only returning player to make it to Final Two.

          • Twirlly
            Twirlly commented
            Editing a comment
            BettyBoo, I agree that Derrick didn't have much competition on the strategy. However, I give him full credit for assimilating to the surroundings. It is what any of the great players are able to do. Rather than letting their "smarts" elevate them over, they have been able to "come down" to and work within the metric.

            I have quite often thought I would love to see a season that would include all those you named! For me Dan is the best there has ever been but I would love to see him challenged by almost equals!

          • BettyBoo
            BettyBoo commented
            Editing a comment
            And just had to laugh at myself since I can never remember who won Survivor twice since she played such a weirdly stealth, hang in there game both times. It's Sandra, but remember Hatch, Hantz, Boston Rob, etc. for their play before I ever think of her. But, hey, whatever works with the competitors you have.

        • #12
          Good things that came out of yesterday (and remember, I have no alliance or side that I like. None. I'm looking for a new alliance/side/something). And even though I have a dream F4 of JMac/Steve/Julia/Vanessa (stop laughing), I want EVERYONE to play and everyone to also feel the heat:

          1. ADC is actually aware that the SS is still scheming. They still don't know the name SS, but they've caught them talking several times. That puts Vanessa on their radar again BIG TIME. And Becky has been added to their mix, so the sides are more evenly matched which makes the game more fun.

          2. The twins are thinking about what's best for THEIR game. However they decide to vote, at least they are thinking.

          3. JMac is waking up and knows he might have to start playing soon. Vanessa is after him (which is bad), but that means he has to play (which is good). I don't particularly like the way he's planning to play (Julia on the block??????), but at least he's thinking. I'd hate for him to be evicted without at least jumping in the game.

          4. IF Clay stays, the good is that JMac will have someone. The other good is that his family/friends won't scream/laugh at him when he gets home because he threw his game away for a female that he won't even remember by December.

          I'm going to the office early today, so I've got to run....
          Last edited by nonobadfish; 08-05-2015, 07:21 AM.


          • #13
            I think it would be a big mistake for Austin and the twins to keep Clay over Shelli. They all should know that Meg wants Clay and will do anything for him. He will flip to James, Meg, Jackie and now that Becky has decided that is the way she wants to go, they will have the numbers to do whatever they want. Johnny will go with Clay. Clay has not shown that he can win comps and he will not do anything to keep Austin and the twins safe. Shelli can win comps and will want to work with them. She will try to keep them safe till further in the game. Vanessa will probably go this next week and they will have no one on their side. This will be a bigger mistake for Austin. Julia will be happy when he leaves.


            • #14
              No vote is cast in stone until they say the words to Julie 'I vote to evict *******'

              Until then it's like writing with a stick in the sand with the tide rolling in (example: Liz on Jeff vote). Much of the conversation is spit-balling, verbalizing the outcomes of their choices. The one thing I think we've all enjoyed is that there's been no unanimous vote yet, so shows independent thinking with HGs having the balls to toss in hinkey votes to mess with minds. I can see Austwins dilemma. Shelli can either keep them in a block of five or is she no longer viewed as a trustworthy member of the team, since she's been shown to be spiteful and playing both sides of the house.

              I've just come to the decision that the twins are ready to 'cut a b*tch' and will let Shelli go. I think it'll be an emotional not logical decision, since keeping Shelli and Vanessa in the fold helps them short term, though not long. And we know Austin is whipped so will do what Liz 'advises' in pillow talk. I think they don't like Shelli and that will tilt their thinking from the power of a number block, which is going to be diminished anyway by this vote. As we know it's the last thinking that determines the vote.

              Maybe all my incense burning and prayers to OTEV have been answered?

              Vanessa made a Final Four with Austwins? I hope it's only another Dark Moon fake game agreement not real for her sake or I have to question her reasoning. If she's Final Two with any of the three, best she might have is a split vote from the other two against Austin with maybe a Julia vote. Against either of the twins and Austin and other twin sure won't be voting for Vanessa to win. As had been warned by many writers here, she made a big boo boo putting up Jason for her long-term game. She kept her team together only to have them ripped apart one week later. Shelli is now her only partner choice and she could well lose her tomorrow.

              HOH will be interesting since players may lay back anticipating the next week double eviction. Could we see a shocked Meg win by default? My real guess is either Clay or Shelli will win to exact revenge, but will be targeted at DE.

              OK, everybody, place your bets before the roulette wheel spins again!!


              • #15
                To me the game has definitely reset. Last week I thought that the TPTB wanted a Shelli Vanessa showdown to the end. Now I think maybe they are sticking with the twin storyline. I won't know for sure until after the vote. With a Clay eviction Shelli will win HOH and James will be nominated and probably the first jury member.

                Hopefully what I read about Becky joining the ADC group is correct. They need to have the numbers on their side.


                • KeninVA
                  KeninVA commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Vanessa and Austin talked about outing her to James, now, before the vote tonight, especially if they feel they have to vote out Shelli. In fact, I would go to James, with Jackie, and lay out why they are so reluctant (we trust you, but we KNOW Becky is a backstabber and untrustworthy and a liar). Lets us 6, stick together, and bring Meg and Steve along as floaters, and that is a reset they could trust. We will make the down payment, by voting out Shelli, tomorrow, to show you we mean what we say, but you have to make an unbreakable deal with us. And Vanessa would probably be willing to confront Becky directly on her double dealing. That would isolate her from Jackie).

                • TTOTambz2
                  TTOTambz2 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Becky did beat them a little to the punch last night or at least she created a crack to work within. ADC & her were discussing primary targets she inferred Vanessa but didn't want to say why. James/Meg said no just spill it. She told them the premise with which she accepted to go on the block with Clay was with the goal of back dooring Austin and Vanessa went back on her word and put up someone she felt extremely close to in the house (Jason). Then she said it put her in a vulnerable position b/c Shlay made her feel owing to them for protecting her and she subsequently made decisions to pay back that gratitude but now after hearing about all the side deals & Vanessa tailoring her lies to fit her purposes she wants her out.

                  Since James did the same thing (brought them intel with none in return) & lied about the nominations and since Jackie believed Vanessa would honor their target which Vanessa suggested (because it was originally James or Steve) I think they'll both forgive her (at least James will).

                  On the other hand, if ADC accept this deal I won't be upset as it brings together James/Jackie/Vanessa (the three I feel are playing the game the most aggressively) with the twins who are entertaining and Steve who I'm curious to see what he'll do next. Still if I'm ADC I admit I'm not sure I'd trust Vanessa since she's had deals with everyone and has gone back on her word to suit her goals so much that it's transparent now. I want so badly to see JMac play the game yet he seems to only want to align with Clay & I'm not sure why. He's been told info by Steve, James, Becky and others that point to all of Clay's multiple negotiations and lies & yet he is blind to it. It's odd he's picking Clay over Steve who actually has had his back. No?

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