Live Feed Discussion-August 10

[sdkgeo]

Here's where you can discuss what's happening on the Live Feeds.
Please note that this forum will contain SPOILERS.
Please stay on topic within this thread.

For off topic conversations, and for catching up with your BBU friends, please use the BBU Cafe Thread.

There are also quick reference forums where you can check These threads will contain Spoilers.

Head of Household Winner
The Nominations
Battle of the Block Winners
Power of Veto

We've also added a BBU Chat Room - a place to hang out during the shows on Sunday, Wednesday and Thursday. Just another great option for you here at BBU!

If you haven't signed up for the Live Feeds ( CBS ALL Access) you can CLICK HERE or click on any of the banners to get signed up and help support this website at the same time. ( CBS ALL Access) also has many other great features to check out.

Live Feeds not for you?
Like the Live Feed Discussions?
Like the Live Feed Updates?
Like the New Chat Room?

Another great way to help support all that we do here is by clicking our PayPal Button. - You don't need a PayPal account to donate.

Thanks for any support you can give !

[sdkgeo]

Morning all. It was a lazy day in the house Sunday with some scheming mixed with some sun and fun.

Today the fun will really start.

[KeninVA]

Morning geo, and all who follow,

The majority of the day, was Becky working overtime to keep the target on Vanessa, and making plans to read Austin and the twins in before the ceremony. Vanessa talked a little game with Steve, who is now anxiously awaiting Vanessa's nom, so that she will out Becky's game to the house. I still think he plans to vote Vanessa out, but his game will be helped immensely by this move. I think, from the outside, Vanessa is a more reliable ally with this many people still, since Shelli has a propensity to cut people off when she gets in trouble, but Steve has to perform his own calculus.

Shelli has made inroads with Jackie at least, who now tells Becky, I think we should pass on Shelli, but still toes the Meg/James line of booting Shelli next. This is a mistake for both Jackie, and especially James, who Shelli will not hesitate to nominate in the double. Julia is also targeting James in the double, at least now, but that could easily change by Thursday night, depending on how Vanessa on the block plays out.

Vanessa appears to be relaxing somewhat, but she should not, and should realize Steve told her Jmac is mad at her, and his friend is in power. Given that Becky does not believe in deals, Vanessa should have a clue that Becky would nominate her, over anyone else.

Nothing much to see today, until just before PoV Ceremony to see what Austin does with the news of Vanessa's nomination, and then of course post veto, to see if Vanessa melts down. If she does not, most of the action won't start til tonight, and then continue through the week.

After the show aired, I wondered if Steve, despite his secret keeping, would preserve Vanessa over Shelly, since he must think at some level that Jmac would be more loyal to Shelli than to himself. A possible pressure point, if Vanessa realizes that after her nom. Keeping Steve on board, means she only has to get James, who I believe would take a deal and boot Shelli now, as best for his game.

[KeninVA]

Meant to say, perform his own calculus. I got caught between metaphors in my head, weighing his own options, or performing a calculation. I should go back and fix that.

[NJ_RonM]

How perspicacious of you.

[~smee~]

Oops, sorry, Ken. I just thought you had a new phrase I could add to my vocab. ::blush::

NJ_RonM

[Luanne]

Good morning all- Should be interesting on the feeds this afternoon. Not sure I will get to watch at that time. I think deep down Vanessa has a feeling, but there is nothing she can do right now. I think she has hurt her game so much the last couple of weeks that she will be walking out the door.

I will still pull for Steve, but I do not think he has what it takes to win. He lacks the social skills. After Vanessa leaves, I think Shelli is the best player in the house. I hope she sees how things are going and stays with Austin, Liz, Julia and Steve for the numbers.

Becky is in a good spot right now. She is with James, Meg and Jackie. By keeping Shelli up to date, she is protected there by her and Johnny. I do not know where she stands with Austin and the twins, but they are not good players. Hopefully Steve will try to take her out.

This has been a good year. The feeds are boring at times but still a good year. By this time, we usually have a good feel for the F4, but not this year. This could be anyone's game except Meg, unless she is sandbagging all of us. Sweet girl but does not seem to be able to win comps.

I am just rambling, lol. It is going to be super hot here today and I have some outside chores that have to be done today. I will check back in later.

[Blogzie]

I agree about Shelli. If she is not gone during the DE on Thursday, she will most certainly be a force to be reckoned with for the remainder of the game.

[nonobadfish]

Morning geo, Ken, Luanne, everyone!
I'm going to try to work my schedule around PoV Ceremony today so that I can see the aftermath (or at least hear the aftermath while I work on other things). My earphones are in my bag and ready to be used!

This is going to be a good week...interesting to see that Steve is now saying to the cameras that he's going to throw HoH. I guess he is that safe for the DE?

And Vanessa, Vanessa, Vanessa. She's preaching loudly that Becky better not go back on her word for the DE deal even while she's making plans to go back on HER word for the DE deal. There's a real disconnect in Vanessa's mind. She claims to never break her word or a deal, but is already plotting to save Shelli over JMac (whom she thinks is the renom) which is directly breaking her word and the deal. Sometimes the lies we tell ourselves about ourselves are the most harmful. Again, Vanessa, it's okay to lie in BB. But you need to own it.

[nonobadfish]

Ken, that makes absolutely no sense to me and (to borrow a Vanessa phrase), I'm not stupid.

A lie is a lie no matter how one gets around it. I suppose that if one is parsing words, then Vanessa could be telling herself that she's not actually lying, but only deceiving. It all boils down to her intent. If she makes a deal, but she intends to find a way for the deal to be broken, then she is is lying about the deal. If she implies to a group of 8 that her intent is to vote out Shelli in the double eviction, but in actuality she is already discussing how to vote out JMac instead, then she has lied to the group of 8. If she can convince herself that this type of deception is not lying....well, I don't believe a normal person could convince themselves that they're not lying. She knows she's lying, or she's delusional.

[BBhead]

I agree with Ken....and Nono. Guess that makes me a floater.

[zoziemom]

I think you should continue to jump in, Ken! First, the silly fish loves to argue with you, and that's fun! Also, I think you have very valid point, and every time I read them, I see a little bit more what you are saying. I think you are right, actually, that she doesn't really lie. Nono is right, too, that she doesn't keep with the "spirit of the deal" as others see it, and since perception is everything in that house, and she has gotten herself perceived as a liar.
I would love for her to stay, would she still target JMac (I wouldn't love THAT), or will this cause her to change her target?

[Kpercyman]

I am training new teachers all day today on Office 365. Ugh! Why on POV Ceremony day?? I will keep checking around what time BBT do we think?

[Blogzie]

Hi Kpercyman , the POV ceremony is typically around 10am to 11am BB Time, I think. The feeds aren't usually down for long while it is happening, although Steve is 'hosting' it today so it may take longer for him to rehearse his lines and stare thoughtfully at the Memory Wall. I'm trying to plan my day around it, sad but true. There is also the possibility that Vanessa may hibernate in her bed immediately after while she works it all out in her mind and then go on the attack later in the day. So I guess what I'm really trying to say is that I don't have a clue...

[KeninVA]

reading a recap, Steve worried about Vanessa and her vote in jury. Practicing what he would say to her.

[Blogzie]

KeninVA I don't think Steve can follow his own thought process. For someone who is so creative musically he appears to be a very linear thinker.
If a = b, and b = c, then a = c, is very rarely the case in BB. I think he is an engineer at heart and the unpredictable human element of BB is what he can't get to fit into the equation.

[KeninVA]

@Blogzie,

My complaint is that he is either not thinking like an engineer, or more likely, we are only hearing half the internal monologue. Not using veto on himself, leads directly to either himself or Shelli being booted. But he wants to preserve Shelli, so why would he even consider it. In the same monologue he wants to go back underground, but if he used the Veto on her, he would make himself a huge target. And he should know that. It is that lack of logical thinking that I can't fathom. And it has nothing to do with his lack of people skills.

[zoziemom]

Since I am currently in the house with 4 girls, 3 of whom are teenagers, my brain may be very fuzzy, that this was an indication that he was at least considering staying on the block to get Shelli out so he could keep Vanessa. But that would be silly, because then the target would possibly shift to him, so he nixed that quicky. Again, the take of a very tired mommy/auntie, so take it as you will.

[ManaDee]

Still secretly wishing for Vanessa to not go crazy after getting nominated and all of a sudden be smacked with fresh perspective. Then she would pull aside James and play to his logic, (by telling him that Shelli is absolutely coming after him and if she stays this week he could be in trouble during the DE), and that Becky/Shelli have been close (outing Becky as a rat) and makes a two week deal with him and promises to keep both him and Meg safe and target Becky/Jmac/Jackie/. Then she would either have to pull Meg, or re-appeal to Steve's insecurity and pull him back in.

It could happen, but because of that and because I want it to happen, alas it will not.

In my dreamland week: Vanessa stays, Julia win HOH and targets Becky/Jackie in the DE and Becky goes to jury.. Her arrogance and inflated ego are driving me nuts. Then Vanessa would have garnered favor with everyone but Jmac/Jackie, who are coming for her anyway. Then James wins HOH and takes out Liz or Austin. Ahhhhhh.

[PumpkinPie]

I'm on that train.

[herms is here]

I am on that train as well.

[ManaDee]

Yay! Happy to have the company! Choo choo!

[Blogzie]

Hi KeninVA , please continue to jump in on the discussion, because I find it fascinating to try and work this out. In my mind at least.

I think the disconnect is as follows:

Vanessa gives her word on a situation and then at some point she decides to change things up, so she creates controversy to deflect what she is doing. Much like the manufactured argument with Jeff. Therefore in her mind she has not actually lied. Yes, I said I would do so and so BUT then I caught Jeff in a lie so I had no choice but to change things from my original plan. Or as you said, she gets someone to do it for her. She is only going back on her word because she was forced to, she was given no other choice, even though she created the situation which gave her no choice. It's almost as if she is working out an algebra problem.

However, the takeaway from all that both with the HG's and the viewers is ultimately when all is said and done, she did lie and go back on her word. End of story, full stop. You said were going to backdoor Austin and you didn't. You did it to Jason instead. And she meltdowns saying "But don't you see why? How could you not see why?"

Am I even close?

[KeninVA]

She said she FELT BULLIED, an assertion that cannot be proved or disproved, feelings just are. And, as independent corroboration, Austin, Liz and Julia expressed the same thing, and Jackie said repeatedly, do what we want now, or we are coming after you next or words to that effect. And Vanessa did stand up and say, I promised to keep Shelli and I am going to keep her, up in that room. So, at nomination, James said, we have to separate Clay from Shelli. And he said, I don't care who goes home. Then, when it looked like people did not want to go along with his preferred boot, he was stuck. And James is worried about his word. When they were lamenting the march towards a Clay boot, the ADC said, we should have taken Clay down, and put up Vanessa. And James said, I am not breaking another deal this week. He knows he has damaged his credibility.

[cutencuddly]

Did she say 'felt bullied' each time?

That's another thing -- she tells so many versions of her deceptions that you can generally pick out one occasion which is closer to the truth than others. And it was still bogus -- Twistin said it because she planted the idea in their heads and they were eager to placate her and come up with some excuse for breaking their own promises to James. P.s., how can you call Twistin 'independent corroboration'?

Then in the fight just before eviction she had to back off her shady assertions because no one would support her. They would back up her fabrications in a backroom but not in front of James and the house. James came out of that week with a lot of credibility. Vanessa not so much. And the reason is that in spite of James' broken promise, he is -- to his core -- orders of magnitude more honest than Vanessa with her self-proclaimed integrity.

[~Linden~]

In my opinion, Shelli and Vanessa are both liars. I'm not going to get into the debate about what qualifies as lying. It doesn't matter because I have no problem with people lying in Big Brother. The all should do it if it helps their game.

My problem with Vanessa isn't that she lies. It isn't that she has voted out people who I didn't want her to vote out (because I could not care less about those who are gone from the game). My problem with Vanessa is her attitude and looking down her nose at anyone else she perceives as telling any kind of a tiny lie.

I hope her interviews will show a better side of her after she leaves the game. I do hope everything she has said and done is pure game.

I don't know if it is though.

[ManaDee]

I just realized (because I'm still fantasizing a Vanessa turn around this week) that she and James made a deal last week that was for two weeks for him and for one other person. Being Shelli's number one target, how has James not thought about this yet? I didn't see last nights show yet for DR sessions though. If Vanessa reinforces that deal to James, with the possibility of DE coming up on Thursday (they do think this, right?) it would keep both James and Meg safe during the DE (if Shelli stays and wins, they'll both probably end up there). Esp if Vanessa can convince Austwins to reinforce safety during DE for James and Meg. That still leaves Austwins Steve/Jmac/Becky/Jackie to target. Win win for everyone. Plus, with the DE it will be so chaotic that the rest of the house won't really know what happened (Was it Steve and Jmac? James and Steve? etc) until after the night is over and someone else is already gone.

How I wish I could spell it out in gummy bears or pretzel sticks for her.

[ManaDee]

I totally agree! I love your posts, but usually miss a lot in here unless the baby is napping! I just figured out how to subscribe to your posts!

Totally agree about Jackie. She's bull headed and def not turnable at this point. Meg is influenced by James, and would be able to play her vote off on Steve. Becky/Jackie wouldn't believe she was one of the votes, I don't think.

I don't think Steve will tell her, unless it's RIGHT before the vote, and def in the goodbye message.

Also agree about Becky. I'm really hoping Vanessa uses the info she has on Becky to her advantage this week. Have we seen her do any of that yet? I'm hoping she's clear headed enough about being nominated that she thinks that all through well.

I think Becky is still a target for Steve, should he win HOH. I think Becky is truly only safe with Jmac and maybe Jackie (who might just refuse to believe Becky was a rat because she's horse blinded that way sometimes).

<<James and Meg could neutralize two threats with one vote (Shelli, and Vanessa). It is a powerful argument if you think about this as a game>> THIS exactly! I feel like Vanessa is totally smart enough to get this, it's conveying it to James, and James being open to thinking about it, that is key.

I know no one has ever been evicted, returned and gotten to the end, but I'd be happy to see Vanessa do it for the first time if she goes this week.

[TTOTambz2]

Hey Ken,

James asked Vanessa to make his plus one for Jackie (not Meg). It was astute on his part since he knew it was unlikely people would vote Meg out over other big targets.

[KeninVA]

@ttotambz2=

Vanessa if she gets to stay, is not going to keep Jackie around, if that is all she has as a viable target. The deal is not a death wish. She may not tell James, but I know she specifically left out re-nomination.

[cutencuddly]

It's a tribute to Vanessa that people are on the edge of their seats to see if she can pull off Van's Funeral.

[nonobadfish]

As much as Vanessa bugs me, I really don't care which one leaves as long as either Shelli or Vanessa are out the door and the SS is dismantled. But I lean toward wanting Vanessa gone because I think she's after JMac and Shelli is not. I'm single-focused here because I only have one favorite.

[BBhead]

Agreed. I want Vanessa gone. I'm one of the few who has never had a big issue with Shelli. Vanessa on the other hand, wears me out. I have always liked the relationship between Clay and JMac, and I wanted them to work together. The instinctive trust was there, and Vanessa kept interfering in it. For that, I want her out!

[~smee~]

That, BBhead , was because she knew they were lovers...::roll eyes::

[ManaDee]

In my dream scenario, Vanessa stays and her and Johnny Mac magically decide they need to work together and take everyone else down. Haha. I love Johnny Mac in the diary room but until recently haven't seen much playing from him. Now that he is, I'm not a huge fan of his choices of people to work with. So frustrating.

[Border57]

It's certainly going to be fun to watch her switch into overdrive to get herself safe. I am by no means thinking it's a done deal that she goes. Once she is aware, it's going to be kitty bar the door!

[nonobadfish]

So for example, Vanessa claims to Steve last night that she didn't tell Shelli she would use the veto on her, just that she would "save" her. Vanessa swore on her mother. Shelli, obviously, believed that Vanessa swore on her mother that she would use the veto to take Shelli off the block (because surely Vanessa wouldn't swear on her mother that she would keep Shelli from being evicted if she stayed on the block because there is no way to guarantee the outcome of a vote). So in essence, Vanessa can claim that she didn't lie because it's not her fault that Shelli interpreted her words incorrectly. But in my book (and I bet Shelli's if it had come to pass), Vanessa lied to Shelli. It's an interesting way to live....tricking other people with your words and then not taking any blame for the disruption left behind.

[Blogzie]

Yes. I think it was Border57 who called it deception rather than just lying.

And there is a lot of deception used in the game of poker.

Didn't I hear something about Vanessa and poker?

Mmmm...let me put on my green wool thinking cap and get back to you.

[nonobadfish]

Oh....I don't know. Vanessa is too good at deflecting any blame or responsibility for that to be something she picked up just for the summer. The odds are that she incorporates this 'I didn't lie because I used my words in a way that let me off the hook' into her outside life.

It's okay, though, Ken...you like her. You don't mind the way she is.

(I don't think this conversation is making progress, and I'm starting to feel like Vanessa in the constant retelling of the same thing over and over, so I'm going to bow out happily.)

[Border57]

Vanessa went to law school and had very high grades, according to Wikipedia, although she didn't graduate. But law is all about the words and language and interpretation, so Vanessa can use words better than anyone in the house. The only problem is, the other people in the house are not so particular about word usage so if for example you say 'if I win the veto I will save you', that translates to them as 'if I win the veto I will use it on you' , and they will see that as lying if you don't use the veto on them.