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  • Live Feed Discussion-August 17

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  • #2
    Well looks like the Austwins are going to stay the course (darnit). I keep hoping that they will decide to put up Vanessa, but they are stayins very disciplined.


    • cutencuddly
      cutencuddly commented
      Editing a comment
      Gotta give 'em credit.

  • #3
    Morning geo and all who follow,

    Vanessa is melting down, James/Meg really are as game stupid as I initially thought, and Jmac shows some offense.

    Vanessa had a melt down last night, feeling the results of the shunning that has been created by the Austwins constant bashing of Vanessa throughout the week. She knows she is on the outs, but can't figure out why.

    James/Meg have a discussion and say we need Steve out, before Jmac, and we don't need to go after the Austwins until a lot later. And James would like to keep the twins in the game to the end. They are idiots. James is getting very nervous that Austin keeps saying Vanessa has deals all over the house, but he knows she does not have a deal with him. Meg who yesterday said, don't approach her, let her come to you, has reversed course and now tells James approach Vanessa.

    Jmac/Steve have a discussion, and Jmac hints at his first bit of offensive game. Steve tells him, Vanessa is melting down, because we are shunning her, and we are not doing a good job of making her feel safe. We have to fix that. Jmac points out that with Meg/James group down to two, they no longer represent a threat. They wonder if Austin would team up, since Jmac knows Vanessa does not have a final 2 with Austin, since he was fine with Jmac saying he would target her. He wonders if Steve/Jmac could pull Austin in (this is flawed reasoning based of his lack of social interaction with Austin and the twins, except for the last 3 days). Steve/Jmac don't discuss targets, but I was left with the impression that getting Vanessa out is not in fact Jmacs top priority, and I think Steve would agree with that, since his ideal F3 is Steve/Vanessa/Jmac. Jmac is so closed, that we don't know what he is really thinking, but he maybe the only HG outside of the Freaks and Geeks, who really recognizes the threat of that Trio by final 7.

    Vanessa's flaw is she is banking on her being loyal to Austwins, and assumes they are being loyal to her. This will be her undoing. She has consistently been betrayed by the people she is most loyal to. First Austin, then Clay/Shell, and now the twins. In Vanessa's case, her actions have not spoken louder, and the perception that she is manipulating, when in fact she has not, and has in fact not been lying.

    In any event, she won't be backdoored today, and Becky's campaign is going to be all about targeting Vanessa (I suspect). Becky is going home on Thursday, barring some major revelation that forces the twins/Austin to change their minds, since Vanessa will vote with them on this one, in the interests of harmony.


    • cutencuddly
      cutencuddly commented
      Editing a comment
      *and the perception that she is manipulating, when in fact she has not, *

      LOL ... I wish you would leave things like this out of your analyses ... but they give you a human touch. They let us know that as amazing as you are, your aren't perfect. That's endearing.

    • KeninVA
      KeninVA commented
      Editing a comment

      I have yet to see her have a serious game discussion with someone on ''Her Team'', where she has not presented the facts, and the layout of the board in a pretty open way. She did not manipulate her side to vote Jason out. I would have characterized her behavior as resistant. Her immediate reaction, after everyone agreed they were going to stand up for the blindside nomination, was understandable anger.

      Her weakness, is in failing to understand what she would perceive to be the character flaws of others. Shelli/Clay shift blame for their decisions. Meg was 100 percent correct. If they had said to her, let Austin go, he would have been gone. She was not playing both sides, they and Becky were. She did not start "Dark Moon". She got trapped in a room, when Clay suggested a new alliance (the guy who started so many, when people asked them ''what about the alliance?'' His answer, more than once was ''Which one?''.

      I said before, her game was not to lie to people, it was to point out the actions they could take to further their self interest in the game. And lets not forget, she and Shelli held power for 4 weeks. How much manipulation did she have to actually do? It defies logic. I stand by the statements. I understand the perception. But, I went back and looked at the convo Jmac keeps talking about. He is lying. We know Becky is lying. We know she is not lying to Steve, in the major outline. And she has not manipulated Steve on iota. He knows exactly what he is doing.

      And as far as putting Shelli back up, everyone in that room knew that was what ''ADC'' wanted, and that Becky was going to do it. She was hoping to have Steve on the block, be made safe via PoV, and then Jmac would have been put up and put out. When James was HoH, she told Shelli, out Becky, who you have not been in an alliance with, and he will put her up, after James PoV win, and he probably would have, or at least had a shot at it. Shelli chose to ride or Die with Becky, and got put out of the game, by not following Vanessa's advice.

      The only thing she has been wrong in, is that James/Meg really are blind mice, and would willingly walk into F5 with Austwins intact. Austin or Liz will crush them in the F4 Veto, ensuring two of the three make into the finals. Vanessa is willing to gamble on that, since she thinks she wins that comp.

  • #4
    Good morning Ken, geo and everyone

    Vanessa may have made major mistakes during the game, but she has good instincts. She does not know what, but she does know something is different. That is why she had her melt down. Her loyalty to Austin and the twins will be her downfall. If she is on the block with anyone except the twins and Austin, she will assume they have the votes to keep her safe and will not call attention to how dangerous this is. She has to win HOH Thursday or her days are over.

    James and Meg have no idea what is going on in the game of BB. They have been that way all season. I like them but to team up with a threesome this late in the game is not smart. There are others they could try to team up with that would be better for their game. They have blinders on.

    If Vanessa goes out next week, I hope Becky is the one that comes back in. She would team up with James, Meg, and Johnny. Steve might be willing to join that side to break up the threesome.
    Austin and the twins think that they have the game in the bag. Once Vanessa is gone, everyone will be trying to break them up. The one thing going for them is that James and Meg do not win very often. It will be up to Steve and Johnny to take them out.


    • #5
      Morning all! I didn't get to see much this weekend, but I checked in late last night and saw Vanessa's 36th breakdown. I felt sorry for her because she put herself in the position she's in, yet either can't or won't recognize it. Vanessa is a life lesson for other HGs: If you get caught manipulating and lying to others, you're going to be ostracized. To be a good BB player, you have to make sure you lie/manipulate in a way that you don't get caught. (Maybe not do it so often to so many?) I wonder if she doesn't know how often she's been caught at deceiving almost everyone in the house? And if she's not deceiving them, then she's bragging to them about how she deceived others. It's only natural that Julia, for example, would not trust her after Vanessa so cleverly explained how she doesn't have to keep her word due to semantics. And so many of the other HGs were privy to her manipulation tactics...did she not think that they might eventually be worried that they were her next manipulation target? It's still sad, though, to see someone as upset as she is. But if anyone tried to explain why she's in this position, she'd be furious and they'd end up with a days long lecture about why they are wrong. She's a straight shooter, you know. And she knows for a fact that Clay and JMac are related.

      I'm ready for Becky to go to jury, I think. It probably would be nicer to send Vanessa since it might give her a chance to let herself rest, but Becky wore me out in just the little I watched last night. And she's trying to trick JMac into not campaigning, so I'm done with her. Go JMac!

      Busy, busy week ahead, but hopefully only a few days until I can cut my feeds on safely without those welder glasses that I stole from Walleye. Thank goodness I missed Austin giving Liz the hickey. Oh, Mylanta.

      Y'all have a fun day and behave.
      Last edited by nonobadfish; 08-17-2015, 07:51 AM. Reason: My dear friend Smee showed me the error of my typing....thank you, smee!!!!!!


      • ~smee~
        ~smee~ commented
        Editing a comment
        No, Nono, I think my brain just hasn't woken up yet this morning. Now I understand what you are saying - I thought you meant you were cancelling your feeds and done with this season. I am glad I misread -- because you would be sorely missed around here. Love you.

      • crissykins
        crissykins commented
        Editing a comment
        how can we have a fun day if we behave?

      • KeninVA
        KeninVA commented
        Editing a comment

        I won't be trying to convince anyone of anything anymore. I learned my lesson with Derrick. We see what we want to see.

    • #6
      Austin is actually way more perceptive than I have given him credit for. His only downfall is that he believes Jmac. James/Meg are all in, and won't consider going after the Austwins unless Jackie comes back in the game. Otherwise, they will shoot it out in F5 with them. Very probably Austin and James get put out, in that scenario, and the twins crush Meg in the final 3 comps.

      His only key mistake, is pushing the Vanessa story so hard, he has left a big gaping vulnerability for himself, if she wins HoH, or if she is up on the block, and gets off via PoV. Jmac, as HoH will for sure put a twin up, and in the campaign to save her/him self, Meg or James would out all the double dealing Austin and the twins have been doing, severing her link to them, and making her available to hook up with Jmac and Steve. Can Jmac surpress his Vanessa hate, is unknown, but keeping Vanessa in the game if she makes herself safe, is a far better option then thinking if Liz goes out, Austin will ride to F3 with them. JMO.


      • #7
        Nono I agree with you about Vanessa. She is her own worse enemy. I guess she is smart, she has certainly told everyone how smart she is. KenVa says that she is the only one who sees the game board clearly. If this is true then why has she chosen to continue to stick by those who she knows are disloyal and who have others higher on their affinity list. She seems to be blinded by her loyalty. Remember how she went on her campaign to tell everyone in the house that they were wrong about Audrey. She knows Austin has lied and been disloyal, yet she continues to work with him. Her alliance was and is made up of couples and a threesome - Clay and Shellie, Liz and Julia, Austin and Liz and Austwins. I never understood why she was so hung ho about bringing in the twins. I understand the numbers advantage but could she not see that another couple in the alliance was not beneficial to her. And then there is Steve, someone who is playing an individual game, has lied to her, and skirts around full disclosure. There is a difference between intelligence and emotional intelligence. She seems to lack the latter. She has said that she is always let down by others in her outside life.

        JMac is another one who seems to pick the wrong people for his game. I know Becky is irritating but she is the only one among the people he has aligned with that has been open and honest with him. Why has he not gone to James and Meg, laid out his cards like he did with the Austwins and formed an alliance with them. Becky told him that they were the best team to work with. Say what you will about James and Meg not seeing the board but they are loyal team members and eventually see the dynamics of the house.


        • #8
          In regards to Vanessa's mini-meltdown in the hammock last night, I didn't see that as genuine on her part at all. I think it was pure strategy and manipulation. With the timing being the night before the Veto Ceremony, she was trying to make herself appear vulnerable and alone in the game to minimize the risk of being put on the block as the re-nom. She repeatedly kept pointing out who had who in the game and that she had no one. She tried to squeeze out a few tears but they weren't coming from an emotional place. For Vanessa it's all game all the time. All day and all night as the BB promo says.


          • GinaKC
            GinaKC commented
            Editing a comment
            OH man, I can't stand the "I'm all alone in the game" meltdown. What a joke. She has never been alone in this game. I don't think that was genuine, I agree with you. Strategy and manipulation. Bingo.

        • #9
          I was thinking of the scene in Mommie Dearest where Joan cut the boyfriend's face out of all the pictures when he left her and Christina warns her brother that's what happens when she doesn't like you any more. Add in the hysterical cutting of the shrubs after being terminated by MGM and the infamous 'no wire hangers' scene and you get the image of a woman with over the top reactions to stress and pain.

          This is how I view Vanessa. She caused her isolation, by isolating herself. The only time she talks to anyone it's game, game, game; she has no down time. If you resist being her puppet than you must be eliminated. Who would want to spend time with her, when you always feel threatened by her.

          But, she does use the tears to try and drag people back to her orbit. Oh, poor pitiful me, I'm sitting in the garden eating worms. Problem is nobody is buying the act anymore. Especially when you see Steve trying to be companiable with her and instead if appreciating it, she went right into her Law and Order prosecutor mode with him about when he knew about the back door. She's just exhausting as a person.

          I loved the head games Dan played since there was a spirit of fun. He made us part of the game when he'd wink at the camera. Same with Danielle. Will had fun with it too - his DRs with Boogie were classics of silliness. Derrick was all business, but he didn't do it with phoney drama and accusations. It's why I don't like Vanessa' s game. She's run the house, but there's no joy or grace in the play.

          Wonder if Steve is experiencing laser burns this morning from her?


          • Walleye
            Walleye commented
            Editing a comment
            Blogzie 'he may end up killing her before he votes her out'. Lol I agree and best line of the week!

          • BettyBoo
            BettyBoo commented
            Editing a comment
            Hee hee, rug burns. It is funny how he likes to get under her when she's in the hammock. Symbolic? Too bad she's pushing away her last 'friend' in the game right to J-Mac.

          • cpamama
            cpamama commented
            Editing a comment
            That 'no wire hangers' scene scared me so much that I quit using wire hangers. Seriously!

        • #10
          Did anyone notice Steve's comment to JMac after Vanessa's meltdown? Steve said. "Don't leave me alone with her" and he said it twice to JMAc. Steve doesn't believe her anymore either. No one does. I saw her meltdown yesterday as a play for attention and it worked. Everyone scampered around her with Poor Vanessa. When she said she missed Mel, Steve said he missed his mother. In other words, everyone has someone they miss.


          • bookwurm
            bookwurm commented
            Editing a comment
            Totally off game topic - LOVE the pic of your Cavalier, sofieckcs! Wonderful dogs...

          • KeninVA
            KeninVA commented
            Editing a comment
            And Austin misses Liz when she goes in DR. He said that.

          • sofieckcs
            sofieckcs commented
            Editing a comment
            bookworm, cavaliers are the best. I've had several breeds but cavaliers are different. Just wonderful, affectionate dogs. They don't like to be left on their own though. They need company. Either a human or another dog.

        • #11
          James, James, James. He shows real promise, and responds the right way with game info, but without info he is like a blind man, and he and Meg are the perfect example of the blind leading the blind. Having Meg on his side, whose first instinct is to shoot down intel, trust everyone, follow the crowd, and has the worst read on the house this season, is one of his pitfalls in the game. I really think that Meg's exit from the game would be to James' benefit. It is unlikely to happen though. If your one solid alliance in the house is your own worst enemy, even without the intent, the game is stacked against you. This is why James and Vanessa would have been a fierce alliance of 2 if it had happened. Alas, it is also very unlikely at this point, but what a dream team they would have been! They would have complimented each other well, Vanessa giving him strategy, him reducing her paranoia, and keeping her calm. His physical prowess would balance her mental prowess in competitions. Their loyalty to each other would have been reciprocated and well worth it. Most especially, since Vanessa respects James, he would have been the best person to point out her lack of self awareness. Even as a Vanessa fan, I would have preferred a little less histrionics from her, and I think aligning herself with James would have accomplished that.

          Being actively isolated in the pressure cooker that is the BB house must be a lot to take in, and I really feel bad for Vanessa, and completely understood her meltdown yesterday. I especially feel bad for her because she really has been loyal to her alliance. Austin became a liability deserved to be put out, but got saved. She has been protective of the twins since their discovery, doing more for them than Austin has. She basically killed her game to try to keep Shelli in the game. James, John, Jackie, and her have been the most loyal in the house to their alliance in my opinion. Unfortunately that sense of loyalty has been her's and John's undoing in the game because it was to the wrong people. (The common denominator for them, Shelli and Clay). I want her to win the next HoH very badly. But, then again I think that the next one after the jury return might be a more important win for her. If someone who will preserve her in the game could win this Thursday's HoH, she would benefit from just laying low, until the next one. However, I am hard pressed to find anyone who would actually preserve her this coming HoH, and think she has put herself in a win or go home situation. Steve might be pressured to nominate her. The Austwins might decide that there won't be a lot of blow back from nominating her. James/Meg are actively targeting her because they don't see the board as it really is. And John really dislikes Vanessa, has repeatedly said he is targeting her, and will probably target her. If I was in the house, I would target the Austwins this cycle and the next, and only target her in 2 weeks as back up, or in 3 weeks when she has no chance to come back in. This rationale might be from a little bias on my part though, because she is still my favorite.

          It seems that Steve is trying to recruit John to team up with Vanessa, but then I remember a conversation between John and Becky, where he told Becky not to trust Steve. Is it possible that now that he is about to lose Becky, has had a chat with the Austwins, is smart enough to see that Austwins need to be broken up, he is considering keeping Vanessa? Or is he still actively targeting Vanessa, willing to ditch Steve in favor of a different partnership? Say with James/Meg or even stupidly the Austwins? Or hoping Shelli will win the buy back? I am totally clueless about John's gameplay since he lost all (with Becky being the last) of his allies. And would really want to know what John is thinking. He doesn't talk to the live feeders, isn't very chatty even with Steve, with Becky's almost exit he is wisely even less so with her. I wonder if we will get any DRs to point us in the right direction. I think that I am more clueless about John's gameplay, even more so than Steve's.

          I need your help BBU. Yesterday, I caught the last part of a conversation between John and Steve where they were talking about Vanessa taking the hit for their move. I was wondering if evicting Jackie was a master plan blamed on Vanessa. I tried moving the play bar back, but lost it, didn't check the time of the conversation, and couldn't find that same small conversation, no matter how I tried, so I gave up. Now, I am wondering, did I really see the conversation? Is it imagined? Is BB taking over my life? Am I dreaming about BB? If it is real why can't I find it? Can someone please put me out of my misery? Did anyone else see this?


          • belle1
            belle1 commented
            Editing a comment
            She definitely manipulates and lies but so have others. To me that is part of the game. I just don't like that she proclaims that she is truthful, honest, and has had no part in the outcomes of the game.

          • KeninVA
            KeninVA commented
            Editing a comment
            I did not see the John Steve convo, but I know Steve is happy to have everyone blame Vanessa for his move, based on a convo she shared with him 3 weeks earlier. I am a little surprised Steve thinks she is lying to him. She has been opaque, and withholding, but I don't recognize that actual lies. I know he believes anything Jmac says to him, as do Austwins, but I am always dumbfounded as to why that would be.

          • ManaDee
            ManaDee commented
            Editing a comment
            Couldn't agree more with the entire first paragraph about James, Meg and a dream team James and Vanessa F2!

            I'm hoping Vanessa does not win HOH next week, and instead wins VETO. Keeping her safe, and opening her up to play in the next HOH, which depending on if someone enters that week, could be key for her.

            John to me, is the least adaptable person there, and def to his detriment. I'd like to see him switch gears and get himself set up a little better (and not by hooking up with Austwins, like everyone else) but I just don't see it happening. Biggest disappoint this season for me.

            I know that everyone thinks that Vanessa go into Steve's head and that's why he made the noms he did, and the decisions that led to Jackie's exit. She didn't, but Steve and Jmac have no problem letting everyone think so.

        • #12
          IMO, Vanessa's meltdown was staged, just as a lot of Steve's socially awkward is staged. She played up being vulnerable until she knows for sure she is safe after PoV nom today. Yes, she is alienating people and doesn't seem to see it but she has no idea how to turn off the game. Steve told her he would try to build a bridge between her and JMac, I think that played into him telling JMac not to leave them alone. Steve knows he needs to pull Van over to breakup Austwins. At points over the weekend, JMac, Steve and Van talked on the patio, the hammock, played pool. Steve told us (the camera) the other day he intends to keep his F2 with Vanessa. He said she will get all of blood on her and no one will vote for her to win. At this point, I think Steve is the only one who would beat her in F2 and even then it will be split.

          As Ken has pointed out, Vanessa is fully aware of the triple vote at F7, so is Steve. I think Liz is the most logical vote out next because of it severing Liz/Julia and Liz/Austin with one stone but I think Austin will be the target. Actually putting up Liz and Austin makes the most sense but I don't know if anyone will fire that shot.


          • Myragirl
            Myragirl commented
            Editing a comment
            I didn't think it was staged. They were acting differently towards her after the talk with Becky, have gone from being her ally to actively targeting her, and are talking bad about her behind her back. She didn't think she would be on the outs the week when one of her so called alliance members won HoH. They definitely wouldn't have been on the outs if she had been in power. She felt a chill which in turn made her isolate herself. Even though they tried to deny it during her meltdown, there was definitely a chill. It was so obvious that even Steve, who doesn't pick up on social cues noticed it.

        • #13
          It's gotten to the point where no one can target Austwins themselves. I keep seeing everyone going 'nextweek we need to get so and so to target them', because of how deep we are in the game no one wants to be the one to do it because that's 3 lost jury votes, and 2 players who suddenly make you target #1 while you can't win HoH for yourself the follow week. They let them get too deep in the game, at this point they might as well be invincible, I don't think anyone is targeting them till there are 5 left.


          • Luanne
            Luanne commented
            Editing a comment
            The only way one of them will go on the block is if there is no other choice.

          • PipelinersWife
            PipelinersWife commented
            Editing a comment
            If they had watched enough BB they would know it's not necessarily 3 votes against. Those 3 could see that as a big move getting them 3 out, since they think they are all that, lol. Liz and Julia, from conversations, do not always agree on things.

        • #14
          I am understanding Steve's move to vote out Jackie as a way to not only take out the 3rd leg of the 3BM, but to take the spark out of the team. James and Meg have proved to be feckless as a team since then.

          This HOH will be interesting. Wonder if a non-triplet will target the menage a trois or Vanessa? It would be another irony if Vanessa is the one who breaks them up, since she created them by getting Julia in.

          But this week could be dull once the Veto ceremony is over, until, of course, Vanessa has one of her regularly scheduled freak outs. But it's like a car alarm nowadays. They go off so randomly, that not only are they not viewed as serious, they're just a noise nuisance that people ignore. She may have protected the Austwins to her own detriment. Just ask Clay and Shelli.


          • #15
            Myragirl, I am not sure if I saw the conversation you are talking about or not. I did see one where Johnny and Steve was talking about the fact that James, Meg and Becky think that Vanessa told him to put up Jackie. They both agreed that it was a good thing and they would let them think that. They do not blame Steve for that move at all. Sunday's show showed Vanessa asking him if he needed to talk and he said no. His decision was his 100%. Vanessa did tell him way back when Jackie won HOH, she wanted to put him up. Jackie was going to nominate Steve and Liz and that is why Vanessa went to great lengths to save him. But of course Steve does not believe that is what happened. Now he believes that she just made that up. Vanessa has gotten caught in a lot of things but somethings they are accusing her of is not the truth.

            The next two on the block should be Liz and Austin but these houseguest just do not realize it. Vanessa should have stuck with the plan and sent Austin home that week. I see that now, but at the time I was yelling it is all about the numbers. They have the numbers now, however Vanessa is no longer part of the numbers.


            • KeninVA
              KeninVA commented
              Editing a comment
              Luanne, with the info they had, it was all about the numbers. If BoB had continued down to now, the final 8 would likely have been Jmac/Becky/Shelli/Clay/Vanessa/Austin/twins, with Vanessa an early boot of Jmac's. It is not lost on me that Clay Shelli would have dumped Vanessa for Jmac/Becky as soon as Clay had any power. Jmac and Becky both were working for that from week 4.

              It does not make what they did bad strategy, it made them vulnerable in the face of a twist. Clay/Shelli arguably would have been better served letting Austin go, which was Vanessa's initial instinct, since they were playing all sides, and would have delayed choosing who to ride with till much later. That drawing the line in the sand was what Vanessa warned them was going to happen. Now they blame her, after the fact.

            • Myragirl
              Myragirl commented
              Editing a comment
              Thanks Luanne, good to know it isn't all in my head.

              Yes, Jackie was going to initially nominate Steve week 5, Vanessa successfully deflected that, then Jackie decided that Steve was her backup backdoor if Austin's backdoor didn't work out. Vanessa rightfully relayed this info to Steve her ally. I agree this is the biggest problem for Vanessa. She gets accused of a bunch of things that are a mixture of total fabrications, the other HG's opinion of the actual occurrence, and her own deceptions. The problem is that her own actions and conversations setup this perception of her. She makes many deals, as do other HGs, reneges on them, just like the other HGs were going to (all part of playing BB), but then gets thrown in the dog house by the same HGs. While I'm fully supportive of her smart playing, and I am hard pressed to feel sorry for HGs who got outplayed at their own game, I wish she would stop pulling the loyalty card with other people outside of her alliance. The truth is those are the only people she has been loyal to, and saying otherwise is an outright lie.

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