Live Feed Discussion-September 7

[Shan]

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[Shan]

Good Morning BBU'rs!

POV Ceremony today... wonder if we shall get any more good dramatics and tears or are we stuck with the Liztin rutting for the next 3 days? (ugh!) If for no other reason (which there are others), I hope Liz is gone this week for that alone!

Enjoy your day friends! I will be peekin in here & there as today is our last day of Summer vacay ..school starts here tomorrow so I have a bit to do around here!

[KeninVA]

Morning Fan and all who follow,

Liz's week away from Austin, ended yesterday afternoon, and she ended up in bed with him. So much for independent action.

Nothing much happened yesterday. Steve and Vanessa bonded, again. Steve will not be hunting for Vanessa, and at this point, I don't know, if she should end up on the block against Jmac, who he still prefers. I think he chooses Jmac, but Steve is very inscrutable. I think he definitely wants Jmac/Vanessa as his ideal F3. Also, in that talk, his "threat" to scare her and put her up, made her laugh. She knows, and he knows, he can't take her out this round. Vanessa is feeling very safe this week, as is John.

Vanessa stresses to him that she wants Liz out this round, but wants to do it in such a way that the girls want that as well. Right now, even after Austin and Liz talk, that is the direction they are leaning. I can't tell if what she tells Steve is what she really wants, or if it is misdirection. It seems she is leaning towards, get out competition threats, vs leaving bigger targets in, but she tells Steve, Austin and Julia together are incentivized to stay together, even though she knows Julia would fall to her. She also told him, as a possible path to his winning the game, is getting Liz now, Julia next, Jmac third, and him winning part two of the final HoH. I have no idea if that is what she really wants.

Steve and Jmac talk, and Steve is now convinced Jmac is some kind of America Player twist. John finishes the discussion laughing. Apparently, Steve has spent enough time with Vanessa to have contracted a case of a weaker version of the paranoid fantasy bug. In his version of the disease, John is just a paid prankster, but can win HoH, and vote how he wants.

Steve will nominate Julia today, there will be some tears, and salty comments thrown his way, but I think most of the drama was milked out of the initial noms.

I think Vanessa is not going to try to win this next HoH, hoping John gets the job done, and she convinces Steve to boot Julia in next round. I still think she wants to get Steve up, to be voted out, but when she is one on one, she is damn convincing to whoever she is talking too.

[KeninVA]

A little late breaking news, Steve in his monologue is sceptical of Vanessa. But, he has to break up the twins.

[KeninVA]

Second bit of late breaking info, for me: Jmac and Vanessa talked in the backyard early yesterday afternoon. Jmac/Vanessa make reiterate their deal, that I did not know they had. If either is F5 HoH, neither will see the block. No front door, no backdoor, no pawn. Vanessa reminds Jmac, she does not have that deal with anyone else, and he says, I know.

They also talk that they are making things too complicated, and decide that getting Liz out makes the most sense. This tells me, she is confident in her Jmac deal. Since she got back on the boot Liz train in her talk with Steve.

Jmac seems very sincere. Next week is going to be very interesting. Especially if Jmac wins HoH.

[Ellee1]

Did anyone else notice that during HOH comp on the show last night that Liz called Julia 'Liz' when she got one of the pictures correct?

That is not a 'normal' mistake.

[cutencuddly]

They're different heights for one.

[Blogzie]

As much as a dimwit as he is, Austin can certainly tell them apart. He could probably do it blindfolded by just using his finger.
(Sorry, as per usual, I can't seem to resist 'going there'. And apparently, neither can Austin. Whoops. Zing!)

[cutencuddly]

bahahahahaha

[Ladychef]

KeninVA- why does Vanessa prefer to keep Austin over Julia? Julia would be easier to beat.

[KeninVA]

I think she is still worried about an easy goat, incentivizing everyone to take Julia over anyone else. But, I don't take the discussion she had with Steve as the path she wants. That was a scenario, that got him to F2, with her, and gave her the best chance to have another person carry her to the finish.

I still think, she want's either Steve or Jmac out, next week, preferably Steve, who she views as her biggest competition to win the F4 PoV.

He greatest danger, right now, is next week, since she will be sitting in the middle, and is a potential easy boot, given the risk of ending up on the block, next to a member of either pair. She won't be a straight up nom, I don't think, but will be the primary backdoor for Jmac. But that is supposition on my part. I have no idea what Jmac is actually planning, other than winning the next HoH.

[Twirlly]

I think Vanessa will now spend the rest of her time setting herself up as the perfect goat for everyone else. She will sing the "everyone hates me" tune to all. She started it with Steve last night. She has with Austin. It is a battle of the goats right now. Vanessa would prefer to take Julia, but has seen that so would everyone else. Her best bet right now is to play whipped, everybody hates me I think I'll eat some worms to convince people that the entire jury hates her.

[sofieckcs]

I haven't thought of Vanessa being the goat before but I think you're right. She told Steve last night she didn't need the money and 2nd place was fine with her.

[KeninVA]

She is not going to be a goat. The girls, Steve, Austin, likely James, Jackie, and Shelli are all going to be votes for her in the end game.

[ophelia__]

I'm with aprilshowers on this one. I'm hoping that either Steve or JMac find a way to take her out, or that if she gets there, we will see 'bitter jury' members knock her out of the big prize.

[aprilshowers]

I really didn't watch much feeds yesterday so I don't have a lot add to that. I will say that another female will leave the house this week. Leaving 2 females and 3 males. Wouldn't it be funny if we ended up with an F3 of John, Steve and Austin and James was stuck in Jury with all of those females.

I think Vanessa wants to go to F2 with one of the males. Since a female has never beat a male in BB, she wants to be the first so she can say that she is the best BB player (or at least best BB female player) of all time.

I hope everyone has a great day. Enjoy your holiday. I will check in later to see if there is any drama over the Veto ceremony but I feel like that has all played out. I don't think we will see much else this week until they decide which is leaving. Then everyone will start positioning themselves for the next HOH.

[farmergurl]

aprilshowers, I agree that Vanessa wants to beat a male in final 2. I think she has chosen to align with John for that very reason. She believes of the guys left she can beat him because of his perceived game play.

[KeninVA]

She is going to spend the day/night working on convincing the girls that Liz needs to go, and give Julia her best shot at the end game. I did not see her talk with Jmac till just now, from yesterday at 1:10 P.M. Short, like all their talks, but without any Jmac laugh or DR persona. Boot Liz, potential to make a deal with Austin, and talk about a previous deal, neither gets nominated or pawned by the other.

This makes Vanessa the safest in the house, against anyone but Austin, who should not put her up, with Steve and Jmac in the house.

[Tjeffy]

Unless Steve or John win veto. Austin will not put up Julia for fear of loosing his incentives to play with Liz post BB.

[Myragirl]

I saw that conversation. It got broken up with a appearance by Austin. I do think the JMac/Vanessa partnership is real. I think JMac recognizes that Vanessa has worked to preserve him in the game since his re-entrance. The only person she continues to undercut him with is Steve, which is to keep Steve from wanting to ditch her for JMac IMO. The problem is I can't help but think that JMac is also incentivized to take out Vanessa. It will almost seal the deal with the jury for him to win if he is in F2.

[KeninVA]

Austin, will not put up Vanessa, with Jmac in the house, I don't believe. He will risk Julia, rather than going into a F4 with Vanessa out, and he has to face Steve and Jmace, with Julia as his only back up for F4 PoV. That would be critical, because in the scenario you are talking about, he can't play for F4 HoH. He needs someone on his side, who will be able to win. And, he knows Vanessa wants Steve out. She has been telling him since week 5, Steve is going to win the game.

[Twirlly]

So, since there is nothing going on right now, let me throw this out there. What exactly does it take to be considered the best BB player of all time? What are the parameters? Those who are always listed Dr. Will, Dan, Danielle Reyes, Derrick, what makes one greater than the other? Or, is it really more about how they came through the adversity?

[cutencuddly]

Well, for one thing, you don't make yourself a laughingstock. If people are laughing, they need to be laughing with you not at you.

[Border57]

To me, a great BB player is one who totally and smoothly fools a majority of the house for long periods, and at the same time, having fun doing it so the viewers are really entertained. Funny DRs help, too.

[KeninVA]

For me, the criteria is the longest periods of safety, read on the house, and the ability to motivate others to make moves in your best interest, even over their own.

Derrick had it in spades, Dan was able to do it, and impressively get to the end twice was a feat, but both times he played a cutthroat game, and even talked about how his second time around, the loss of the jury round table hurt him.

Dr. Wil gets credit, because he invented most of the strategy, and in fact Vanessa employed a lot of Dr. Wil's game, this season. People don't like her, because she appears joyless to many, but I think she is a quiet intellectual, and so people don't understand her. She is having a huge amount of fun. People just don't see it.

I don't actually care about the tv viewing experience, since that is productions job.

[Twirlly]

From the where are they now files............ I just read that Howie is a meteorologist in Joplin, MO. Good for him! However, I'm just not sure I could take serious weather warnings from someone who devised the "jack shack" and had imaginary light saber wars!

[Tjeffy]

Quiet frankly, I don't think Vanessa cares who she gets to the F2 with as long as she gets there. Her ego has her convinced she can talk herself into winning. She campaigns, that what she does. She's already started that campaign by telling Austin and Steve, the super fans, that she has played a roll in every eviction but Jackie's. She has staring telling the boys that everyone hates her in jury. She is wanting to be the goat but I don't think that all the boys see her that way.
With two votes and HOH being a tie breaker next week, if she's on the block I think she is gone. I could be wrong but that's my guess. If Austin wins HOH next week his primary target is Steve. So he'll put up Steve and John. If one of them wins veto, as I just mentioned to Ken, he will not renom Julia. He wants to be able to play with Liz post BB. If John wins HOH, he primary target is Austin with Julia as the pawn. If one of them win veto he will not put up Steve. If this HOH has a physical/endurance component Austin and John have the best chance at a win. Vanessa will not want to win. Julia could luck into the win but I doubt it.

[herms is here]

Just throwing this out there. What happens if Julia ends up winning this HOH? Does she nominate Steve and John?

[Tjeffy]

Vanessa probably talks her into nominating Austin and Steve with John as a renom.

[BettyBoo]

So, since there is nothing going on right now, let me throw this out there. What exactly does it take to be considered the best BB player of all time? What are the parameters? Those who are always listed Dr. Will, Dan, Danielle Reyes, Derrick, what makes one greater than the other? Or, is it really more about how they came through the adversity?

On my list, Dan is the greatest since he won the only unanimous vote and is the only returning winner to make it to the final two. Dr Will (rather like Richard Hatch initiated in Survivor) set up the game of allies, chess moves, and head games. Danielle was the greatest player to get beat by a bitter Jury, who saw all her DR' s, leading to the secluded Jury house. Derrick was great for always avoiding the block and playing the HGs perfectly. That's my order.

I did not watch Evil Dicks year, but I would put him next just because he won despite being so unlikable. I'll always remember the Jun win over Alison as the most silent applause, since both were despised (they both heard the crickets since they were alone in the House). I think Jordan's win is one of the happiest, since she was such an underdog and was up against so many unlikable players like Jessie, Natalie, Ronnie and Russell. And, hey, she looked so adorable in her tutu.

[CubbyBrother]

Boo----dead on, perfect! I certainly agree Dan is the best ever---S10 was the most perfect game ever played. He was in major trouble early, worked his way through, made a secret alliance in Memphis and talked us viewers through his game play---was really the first to show us how and when to throw competitions. Furthermore, unamimous is unaminous---that is remarkable! I always enjoy watching that season over. When he came back and finished second probably ranks third in game play for me.....it is unfathomable that a group of ten or twelve people would keep him in the house knowing that he was already a winner. Just staying in the house was top award worthy, let alone getting to the final two, where we really had a jury voting on him winning before--not game play.

Danielle's S3 is my number two pick of game play, if solely on the fact that going forth the jury was sequestered. Very well should have been a unanimous winner if the DR sessions weren't seen.

Dr. Will deserves the props solely because his was ahead of the curve and really invented game play. S1 was a summer camp with a whole lot of kumbaya mixed in. Will sort of paved the way.

Derrick's win, while giving props to never getting put up, to me is still quite a bit overrated. I still feel coming off the disaster of S15 with all the social backlash, last year, while good, was very tame as the houseguests had to overcompensate for the previous season. I certainly don't doubt that Derrick could have easy maneuvered through a more hostile environment, I just think that the setting was a little bit easier for him.

[KeninVA]

ED won, IMO, because he got a very sympathetic edit, which set up America to have the best player in that house (Eric Stein as America's player) protect him to the end, and then advocate for him to win in the jury. Eric's consolation is he did win more money then 2nd place wins.

[zoziemom]

Ken, I totally agree about Ed. He won because of Eric being America's Player, not because of his own efforts. That season was such a disappointment for me, America screwed Eric out of a possible win, sigh.

[KeninVA]

Just a little note, on Jmac.

Reviewing the last week of game, Jmac is playing with Vanessa. I realize now, both Vanessa and Jmac are misdirecting the house. The game they are playing with each other is to shape the F4 and F3. Jmac is using Steve as his meatshield, Vanessa is using both Steve and Austin as hers. Vanessa tells Steve, lets let the girls decide who goes home. Jmac repeats it to Steve. He is counting on Vanessa to get the girls to decide who goes home, will be who they want, Liz.

Jmac tells Steve, we should maybe get Vanessa out next week, and team up with Austin and Liz. But, he has a deal with Vanessa, not to put her up or backdoor her. Vanessa tells Steve, we get rid of Jmac in F4. All of it is total misdirection of the house. I know believe he is all in with Vanessa, because he needs to be. He might cut her at F3 to F2, if he can, but he will lose the game at the point, especially if Austin is the F3 with her.

Just my opinion.

[farmergurl]

I agree KeninVA. As stated above, I believe Van wants to take John to F2. Which gives her bragging rights being first female to beat a male. But I also think John wants to take Van to F3 so he can win HOH and cut her than. He knows the jury would love that.

[BBhead]

He just said, in the hammock, with no one around: "I don't think anyone is after me next. Steve or Vanessa next week maybe? Hmmm....should I try to win?"

[cutencuddly]

*She [Vanessa] is having a huge amount of fun. People just don't see it.*

Yeah. We don't.

I hope she really was. For her sake. If her trauma is real that's just sad. All along we've been saying we'd like to see evidence that it has been an act. It will be a ''why I oughta'' moment if she ever does reveal that she was playing everyone with her breakdowns and seemingly hypocritical angst about others betraying her when she was playing such an honest game. But for her own sake, I hope it was all an act and she was having fun jerking the little guppies around in their barrel before she shot them.

I don't like feeling sorry for her. I don't like having to. I don't like anyone being in as much pain as she seems to be. So I hope she really is having fun.

We're human -- all part of one big family -- so for most of us we like players to be having fun playing and the winner to be having fun winning -- because the game isn't worth it if it isn't fun.



The Have-Not room is torture, and I don't like it. BB sucks for having it. And people crying in pain is not fun either. The worst part of Season 15 wasn't having racists in the house. It was Candice and Howard being hurt by the racists in the house. It sucks for people to be in pain. Even the ones who inflict pain on others.

Need more joy.

[kokomogirl]

I'd like to see them do away with the double HOH and BOTB and bring back comps for their food. There's not enough air time to have food comps and the double HOH with the BOTB so do away with these 2 and bring back the food comps. I can't imagine myself eating slop for a week without suffering dire consequences and I think it places the HN's at a disadvantage in physical comps. The sleeping in dentist chairs would also severely affect my sleep, thus putting me at a disadvantage physically and mentally to anyone who was lucky enough to get a good night's sleep in a comfy bed. I believe the playing field should be fair and equal to all. The hg's have figured out how to manipulate the double HOH and BOTB and it adds no value to the show as I see it from a viewer's standpoint. It only favors those who form a large alliance at the beginning of the season and is a disadvantage to those on the outside of that alliance. And I'm still wondering why TPTB did away with the slop for a week and then brought it back when James and Meg were HN's - just don't understand that at all.

[herms is here]

I agree, the two HOH's and the BOTB competition have taken something away from the game. Would derricks have won if not for those two items, and would Vanessa be on the path to winning as well.

The food competitions always added something to the game to me. Yes, the same people may have ended up as have notes, but at least to me it was a fair way to do it. Now it is like a school yard pick, Vanessa picked Meg and James because they weren't part of her group.

They should also bring back where the houseguests went around the table and picked out their key.

[Twirlly]

I think this is fun for her. She is doing what she believes she needs to do to win. However, I do think at times it really has gotten to her and her emotions kick in.

Last night Steve was stressing about hurting people in the game etc. Vanessa just kept telling him it is a game, he has to look at as a game. It isn't life, no one is really dying or really hurt, when it is over everyone will be ok. I think it sums up how she really sees this..... it is a game.