Live Feed Discussion-September 17

[sdkgeo]

Here's where you can discuss what's happening on the Live Feeds.
Please note that this forum will contain SPOILERS.
Please stay on topic within this thread.

For off topic conversations, and for catching up with your BBU friends, please use the BBU Cafe Thread.

There are also quick reference forums where you can check These threads will contain Spoilers.

Head of Household Winner
The Nominations
Battle of the Block Winners
Power of Veto

We've also added a BBU Chat Room - a place to hang out during the shows on Sunday, Wednesday and Thursday. Just another great option for you here at BBU!

If you haven't signed up for the Live Feeds ( CBS ALL Access) you can CLICK HERE or click on any of the banners to get signed up and help support this website at the same time. ( CBS ALL Access) also has many other great features to check out.

Live Feeds not for you?
Like the Live Feed Discussions?
Like the Live Feed Updates?
Like the New Chat Room?

Another great way to help support all that we do here is by clicking our PayPal Button. - You don't need a PayPal account to donate.

Thanks for any support you can give !

[sdkgeo]

Morning all. I must have been in a fog and just went to bed last night not even thinking about Pt 1 endurance being held. Well, at least I got a good nighs sleep.

Vanessa wins part 1. Does Steve have a chance if he doesn't win part 2? Looks like Liz may be the new goat even though she has two votes sewn up in jury. She's not such a goat really.

[KeninVA]

Morning geo, and all who follow,

In the longest endurance comp in 6 years, Vanessa wins. After Steve dropped out, she convinced Liz that Liz needed to preserve herself to take Steve out in part 2, and Liz, despite still having some reserves dropped.

Steve very probably won't be able to win, no matter what he does. And, I am sure, he will have to win out, to be in the F2. Vanessa's end game is now crystal clear. Build Liz up as a threat to Steve, keep Liz worried about Steve winning, and if she is the chooser, take Liz to the end, as both more deserving in her eyes (due to Liz's loyalty to her), and as a very good hedge against Austin. With Liz in F2 with her, while she gives up two votes, everything Austin and Julia say, to swing the jury, becomes tinged with a self-serving patina. The jury will know, that Austin and Julia expect to share in the 500K in some fashion, making everything they say suspect. It is actually a very smart play, and fits in with Vanessa's over all theme. Every person she has evicted, has either a. Not been in her two core alliances, or b. betrayed her in some fashion. Only Liz, has actually had her back, and helped her, get to this stage of the game.

At around 1:15 Vanessa and Liz have over an hour long talk. Vanessa's biggest move of the game, for her, was approaching Julia about the twin rumors directly, and building the two alliances around Vaustwins, with Steve on one side and Clelli on the other. Bigger than surviving the Becky blindside renom, bigger than blindsiding Austin. I am convinced, after listening to her, and thinking about the jury strategy, that Liz will be her pick for Final 2, and she will have not an ounce of guilt at ending Steve's game. She knows, he is plotting her demise.

She has a final 2 with Liz, and will honor it. Probably not much to actually see in terms of game today. The usual everyone promising everyone else to take them, but Liz says she is not making a deal with Steve. We will see if that holds up. Steve has to win Part 2, tomorrow, or his game will end. The girls will tell him, if Liz vanquishes him, he is going out third.

Onward to Part 2. I think, if it is a running or climbing comp, Liz has the edge over Steve. If it is the usual F4 PoV that was not held this year, Steve has a slight edge, but Liz is pretty good, and Steve makes a lot of mistakes. He is not as good as he thinks he is.

Other notes:

It seems from the TV edit, Steve did not throw anything. Not sure why he would say that on the feeds, but not back it up in the DR.

Vanessa is not being very successful at getting Steve to view Liz as a threat to win. He keeps telling himself, I am taking Liz. I think he has to steel himself up, so that he will actually do the deed.

Shelli is back on the Vanessa train, and will obviously be her champion in jury. And, she is going to be very effective against Austin, shutting him up and making him look foolish on the tape package.

[Ellee1]

Where would Vanessa's suggestions about increasing the earnings by gambling come in or would it?

[KeninVA]

Ellee1 , I am not sure I follow your question. My point about Julia/Austin having a vested interest in Liz winning, is based on the face value of the relationships. If Liz wins, she will spend money on Julia and Austin. They have an emotional and financial stake in the outcome. That fact is what blunts their campaigning, since they can't claim to be a disinterested vanquished player, looking to make the best ''decision'' with the jury.

[Ellee1]

Never mind, Ken. I was thinking about a convo with Vanessa and Austin, I think, where the two would increase their earnings by having Vanessa gamble with them. It wouldn't have any influence on jury think.

[Lynette]

Good Morning Ken, Geo, and all who follow! Do you think if Liz is the choser, she will take Vanessa? Her best chance to win would be to take Steve. She has no chance against Vanessa. Would she be like Cody, the loyal soldier?

[KeninVA]

I actually do. The house is a strange place, and Vanessa, Austin, etc, have spent the last two months, building Steve into the next Ian within the house. But, I also know Liz is a consummate liar and social player, and she has more than once subscribed to the ''Vanessa likes girls, and I'm a girl'' line to Vanessa. Meaning, tell V she is all in on two girls in F2, and if she gets the chance, potentially take someone else. I know that was her plan with Jmac, but I don't think she has ever said that about Steve. I think she buys into the Steve is a jury threat myth.

[ROB281]

Can not believe the Liz let herself be talked out of the driver's seat to 500k

[KeninVA]

I think she had to weigh Vanessa's determination, versus having enough reserves to beat Steve in Part 2. The risk for Liz was Vanessa outlasts her anyway, and she is physically wrecked, forfeiting her chance to win Part 2. It is not entirely irrational, and involves weighing a set of factors that only Liz can actually know. Given that she waited for Steve to exit, I don't give credit for Vanessa tricking her, as Liz recognizing that her self interest was going to be better served preserving her physical self to beat Steve at part 2.

[herms is here]

Was Steve's drop on purpose to ensure a Vanessa win?

[ROB281]

Isn't part 2 usually question related though?

[KeninVA]

It is usually simple questions. Put the HoH's in order, find the placard with the names of the pair of eviction nominees on the wall, and place them in order by week, etc. Pretty simple questions. The hard part is that in each succeeding year, they make the physical element of retrieving the placards harder and harder. Since Season 14, it has involved climbing a wall. Spencer could not even do it. Victoria did it, but was half as slow as Derek. But... Liz is stronger and in much better shape than Steve. Steve will get winded quickly, and Liz very well may beat him in the end. Steve has strength, but not stamina, and gets winded pretty easily. And, Liz is a better competitor and more focused than Steve, who appears to have purposely won only 1 HoH.

[OhThisHouse]

Seems Steve has won 2 HOH but shortest time as HOH than anyone . Edited to add: So sorry Ken, totally missed the word PURPOSELY. SNICKER

[crissykins]

Liz is an idiot. Vanessa said she needs to preserve herself to compete against Steve? if she'd have hung on, she wouldn't have had to, she would be sitting out round 2 and Vanessa would be competing against Steve. Vanessa really does deserve to win, she is such a good manipulator....of everyone. I guess her crying and professing loyalty works, then she throws some vapor into it and plays mindgames with them to boot. She just wears me out. It makes me sad because I was so excited to see her in the mix this year and she was my early favorite. She just flat wore me out. Flat. Out.

On another note, I listened to a podcast before the surprise eviction. They were pondering who Vanessa would take to the final 3 and they nailed it. Vanessa took Liz over J-mac because as a poker player you'd rather play against someone predictable, and Johnny Mac is not predictable. You never know what he's going to do. And I understood it from a poker player's point of view. When you're sitting at the table with someone who will call anything, raise anything, check raise, slow play - you don't like playing against this person because you never know. if you play against someone who raises the big blind every time no matter what they have, they are easier to play against.

(I'm more of a Johnny Mac poker player, BTW)

[PipelinersWife]

It still won't let me use the account I used Tuesday night to vote. Steve may end up with If Only I Had.....Syndrome when it's all said and done. Never thought about how her taking Liz would neutralize Julia/Austin campaigning Ken, good point. While I still believe she had an advantage going in as professional poker player, she deserves to win. These people realized early enough they could have taken her out and chose not too. She was not HoH every week or didn't win veto every week. In the end they chose to let her keep on working. If she wins that will be 2 yrs in a row that the person with above average people reading skills end up winning. Hopefully if they go that route again they will put more than one in the house with same skill set.

[PipelinersWife]

aprilshowers, I tried to vote for Meg and John, just to see if those would go through and they didn't. I didn't dare try for one of the Austwins in case they went through I didn't want them to have even one extra vote, lol. I picked two I wouldn't mind having extra vote. I've read on Twitter a lot of people having trouble.

[cutencuddly]

If they go with ''more than one in the house with same skill set'', I want a lot with that pro skill set.

If you have two, then the guppies get the one pro out and they still are facing down another pro.

I want an all-pro or all-guppy or all-newbie or all-returnees season. Something balanced. When they bring in returnees, for the new players that turns it into a contest of who can suck up the best, putting the new players at a disadvantage with fans. That dignity thing again. The adaptive newbies learn to grovel in the right way -- which is them playing the game they're handed -- but that puts off viewers.

[Ladycop]

PipelinersWife, I contacted CBS and they acknowledged that they have a problem and told me to continue to try as they are trying to fix the glitch. I don't have a problem with not getting more than 20 votes if no one else can vote more than 20 times and that appears to be the case. BTW, I just tried again at 8 p.m. and the glitch is still there from this morning. We just have to be patient....and hope they either get it fixed or never get it fixed.

[BBhead]

I watched Vanessa brow beat Liz into giving up. I just don't like Vanessa's style of game. Even though I am not a Steve fan, I want to see him win parts 2 and 3 only IF he has the cajones to stab out Vanessa. He would win the game hands down. Him winning the season would give me no satisfaction at all, but that deed would. If he chokes in part 2 or 3, I wouldn't be surprised. All my votes for AFP will go to Johnny. HE would have happily stabbed her out at the end. I will not vote for James because, although he is likable and some of his pranks were funny, he and Meg were primarily responsible for keeping Vanessa in the game. James just could not get past his fear of Shelli and was very easily suckered by Vanessa (and Audrey). He refused to even seriously consider anything Shelli had to say.

[BettyBoo]

I think Shelli' s big error was linking up with Clay. If she had stayed, like Vanessa, laser-focused on the game she would have been a tougher competitor. She had better inter-personal skills than Vanessa. But she got distracted and complacent. Once Shelli was out, Vanessa had all her minions to depend on against other players who never managed to lodge a sustained attack.

[KeninVA]

I actually think, if Clay had not been in the mix, the final 4 would have been Shelli, Vanessa, Liz and Julia. Liz out at F4, Shelli and Vanessa fighting over Julia's bones for the F2 seat. They were both drawn to each other, early in the game, and all of Shelli doubting Vanessa, and not saving herself, by throwing Becky UTB to James, was mainly driven by Clay. Just my opinion.

[BettyBoo]

I had longed for the battle of the Queen Bees and it showed the stronger player. Wonder if Shelli would go further in an All-Stars?

[BettyBoo]

As the season ends, my desires have narrowed. Since Vanessa looks to be the obvious winner, I just wish for her not to have a unanimous vote so Dan's record stays. But, I won't be watching, since there's no fun left in the show. I do think it's amusing that it looks like Vanessa has decided she CAN'T beat a guy, so we'll have the all-girl final. She deserves to win since she steam-rolled over lesser players, but that's my issue with the show. Like Derrick, it was too lopsided.

Maybe next year a better balance of players will make it a more balanced. Bringing in a ringer and a bunch of bikini models is killing the show. Everybody talks about the close win at the Super Bowl, while blowouts are boring. Well, like Vanessa I'm beating the dead horse until it's a thin pattie. If TPTB really cared what we fans think, they wouldn't bring back Jessie every year.

[PipelinersWife]

I don't think we have to worry about a unanimous vote if she takes Liz, since Julia and Austin will vote for her.

[Ladycop]

I agree @BettyBoo....if they want us to watch stop making everything and everyone so predictable. I can't believe that the HG can figure out what type of comp is coming. True it is a bit different each year, but usually in the same vein. I hate the BOTB....it has ruined any strategy as instead of getting out the best players they are looking for people to throw comps all the time. That isn't fun and I hope they abandon that for the next season. Also, let's get some gamers in there and not idiots who will explain over and over again what is happening (I'm talking about you Jason and Steve). They don't have to know anything because you are always blabbing about what is happening/going to happen. Let's get fans who want to play and not just hope for an acting job after they come out (I'm looking at you Austin and Vanessa). And as long as they continue to bring back old HG's for comps or trips these people will continue to want to be on the show in the hopes they can have more than their 15 minutes of fame or embarrassment.

[magoopy]

I wish they could just have a season of BB super fans, Why would that be so hard to do?

[belle1]

Well I don't have a horse in this race and could care less about who wins. But I will enjoy the shanigans among the three left.

James for Fan Favorite.

[Myragirl]

Morning everyone.

I do tend to see things through rose-colored glasses because I'm team Vanessa, but I think Liz dropped because she was in a lot of pain, and thought Vanessa still had a lot of reserved energy to keep going. Vanessa has proven to have more stamina compared to Liz, based on previous comps. Plus, she does have a chance to beat Steve in P2. Why give Steve an edge by hanging on in P1, only to still lose to Vanessa? She was barely walking after she got off too.

I just watched the chat between Vanessa and Liz after the P1 comp (thanks KeninVA for the recommendation) , and now while I still think Liz was in pain, I am not so sure Vanessa didn't convince her to drop.

What I also got from that conversation is that Vanessa might actually take Liz to F2 if she wins 1. to foil Austin in jury (not like he will have that much pull) 2. Continue her campaign for a female winner this season 3. Steve is going to respect his eviction as a game move, while Liz is more likely to be bitter.

[PipelinersWife]

Typed in BB17 polls in search on Twitter. Selected all I spotted to see how the votes were going. Johnny is clear winner in all, up to 50% or more of votes in a couple. James at second, only 1 is he close to Johnny with less than 100 under. The surprising thing to me is that in more than not Vanessa is in third place. A low percentage but still 3rd.

[PipelinersWife]

I followed a link on Twitter to send message to tech support at CBS regarding voting. Just got this message back:

Thank you for taking the time to contact us. If you are experiencing problems being able to vote, we are aware of this issue and are currently working with our technical team to resolve this as quickly as possible. Please revisit the voting page periodically to submit your votes once this has been resolved.

[OhThisHouse]

SHISH I voted over 36 hrs ago for James, and still cannot vote. That doesn't seem fair.

[SmilemakerRDH]

I just sent a message to them...I still can't vote. And that's not fair considering it only goes until Monday.

[cutencuddly]

"Vanessa to Liz: If I win,...I will take you no matter what I tell him. My word is good and you know my word is good "







So one more vow she's gonna break -- either to Steve or Liz.


Now doesn't she have to step up in her F2 speech and say that she knew she wasn't playing with integrity but she just chose trying to make people believe they were her ride or die as a strategy?


Naw, all those people she stabbed out will still vote for her even if she repeats her "I played this game with integrity" spiel.


But c'mon, Vanessa, own your game.




Or better ... c'mon Steve, win parts 2 and 3 and stab out the stabber.

[EccentricPastiche]

This is big brother. Integrity is not a requirement to win the game. To me, the greatest player of this game is Dr. Will and he lied to every single person in that game. The game is about who can deceive the best, who can manipulate the best, who can master the rest of the house into becoming puppets to play the game their way.

Like it or not, that's exactly what Vanessa did this entire season. She is right up there with Dr. Will, in my opinion, and that's saying a lot because as I just said, Dr. Will has always been the best in my opinion.

If you want a show that showcases integrity, you need to watch a different show. In my memory of past contestants, the one player that played with the most integrity was Donnie - and it certainly didn't earn him a win. Fan favorite, maybe, but not the grand prize.

[cutencuddly]

EccentricPastiche,

Vanessa is the opposite of Dr. Will in the matter of what we have been discussing about her all summer long. Dr. Will told people he would be lying to them. Dr. Will knew exactly what his game was and owned it. Vanessa truly seems to believe that she is playing an integrity-based game. So (a) she hasn't owned her game and (b) she seems to be unaware of how far from honest her game is.

This is not me bashing her. This is just me clarifying. There is a HUGE chasm between Vanessa's game and Dr. Will's.

If Vanessa would be honest to viewers about the real nature of her game, most of the opposition to her would evaporate.

[EccentricPastiche]

cutencuddly - I agree with you that Will never gave the illusion that he was being truthful to anyone - he told them from the very beginning that he would be lying. He also managed to get through the game without winning one competition. That's very impressive which is why I said he's the best player of the game.

I think that Vanessa is doing what she has to do to keep herself in the game. I don't think that we could have another player that could come in and say 'you know what? I'm going to lie to you and smile while I stab you in the back' the way that Dr. Will did because there really is only one Dr. Will. Vanessa isn't Dr. Will, but that doesn't discount the fact that she has managed to manipulate every single person in that house. It's like it was said in the Jury House, every single person that is in that Jury House knew what Vanessa was up to but Vanessa is still in the house and they're in the Jury House.

This isn't a game about integrity. It's a game about lies and manipulation. If Vanessa's flaw is that she claims to be playing with integrity, despite that flaw I still say she's played a nearly flawless game because despite the fact that she's not mastered the "integrity" she has masterfully played every single player that has left the house and she's about to play the last two that remain in the house with her.