Live Feed Discussion-September 21

[KennyERJ]

Here's where you can discuss what's happening on the Live Feeds.
Please note that this forum will contain SPOILERS.
Please stay on topic within this thread.

For off topic conversations, and for catching up with your BBU friends, please use the BBU Cafe Thread.

We've also added a BBU Chat Room - a place to hang out during the shows on Sunday, Wednesday and Thursday. Just another great option for you here at BBU!

If you haven't signed up for CBS ALL Access you can CLICK HERE or click on any of the banners to get signed up and help support this website at the same time. CBS ALL Access also has many great features to check out.

Live Feeds not for you?
Like the Live Feed Discussions?
Like the Live Feed Updates?
Like the New Chat Room?

Another great way to help support all that we do here is by clicking our PayPal Button. - You don't need a PayPal account to donate.

Thanks for any support you can give !

[KennyERJ]

Good Morning, Everyone! Only 2 more days until the finale!

[kokomogirl]

I saw Lexie's update on Steve practicing his speech to evict Vanessa. And I was wondering - do the jury members get to see that last eviction speech? I guess I just don't think of Steve being Vanessa's Cody or, at least, I see her having several Codys, not just Steve. In fact, I see the entire SS alliance as being her Cody. She manipulated and convinced each and every one of the SS members to act and vote for her best interests week after week. So I'm wondering if the jury gets to see that final speech and how they will feel about it when he claims he was Cody to Vanessa's Derrick. I wonder if the jury will take it as Steve giving himself too much credit. Any other thoughts out there?

[cutencuddly]

Part of the practice speech gives credit to Vanessa for something James did, which made me wonder something like that also. That could turn James off of voting for Steve.


I'm pretty sure they don't see the evictions speech, so I hope he doesn't work that part into his final speech and jury answer session.

[KeninVA]

The Jury does not see the eviction. They learn who was evicted when the last juror joins them. And I am sure, Vanessa will vote for Liz, along with James and Meg. Steve will end up losing to Liz.

[Luanne]

Good morning all. I can not remember if they see the speech. Of course I want Vanessa to win, but would be find if Steve wins. I have liked him from day one, but a little less as the season progressed. Not sure if I will be able to watch the finale or not. We might start back home on Wed. Note to any BIg Brother fans, do not plan a long vacation during the season.

[PumpkinPie]

Good morning Kenny and all who follow. It is a rainy Monday morning here on the Gulf Coast.

I am looking forward to Wednesday night but I'm very worried Vanessa will not win the final HOH. Steve has been studying everything he can think of that might be tie breaker questions: how many players total in each HOH/Veto, how many votes cast for eviction, etc. There has been no indication Vanessa has done the same.

I wanted Steve to be evicted over JMac. I have wanted Steve gone for a long time. His immaturity has bothered me all season. When I saw him crawl into the HOH bed with his teddy, crying all over the place, I wanted to snatch him through the TV screen and shake him. There is no honor in taking Liz to the F2. (but I see that Steve believes he could win over Liz and not over Vanessa.)

We all know Steve's plan is to take Liz to the F2. (I also think Vanessa knows this.) He also believes Vanessa will vote for him as the last member of the jury. I guess it's a compliment to Vanessa that no one can win against her. It just irks me to think Vanessa might not be in the F2, considering the amount of wins she has had, along with a masterful strategic game. I believe with all my heart she deserves to win this game.

I am still on the only train I've been on since Day 1: Vanessa for the win!

[sea513]

Lucky you on the Gulf Coast!!!
Go Vanessa.

[cutencuddly]

I have more silly questions for anyone who wants to play with me!

http://www.bigbrotherupdates.com/forum/main-forum/big-brother-17-discussions-and-spoilers-aa/391181-what-player-in-bb-history-is-better-than-vanessa-if-any?p=398741#post398741

[BettyBoo]

I wouldn't want to brag about being Vanessa's Cody. I agree with kokomogirl that the SS were her puppets, with the exception of Clay and Shelli, who were never her toadies like the triplets. Taking them out actually strengthened Vanessa' s game, giving her an easily controlled batch of minions.

I can't see Vanessa or Steve taking each other to the finals, but maybe they just won't be able to resist the temptation. I do hope Steve pulls off the final win, just because I think his choice and his arguments will be more interesting than Vanessa's. Of course, as I've said before, I would love for her to end up as only a Jury vote after all her machinations. But, I suspect Vanessa will not go quietly into the night on the final round Wed. If she wins it'll be wa wa wa for most of us since it'll end so boringly predictable.

But we do get to enjoy Austin's continuing slap of reality when he watches John and/or James win the FF. His shocked face should equal when he was back doored. Maybe he'll body slam Julie and steal the check!!

[Ellee1]

Austin will justify the loss as the votes would have to be split between him and the twins.

giggling...I would like to see the Austwins' faces when they realize that they were at the bottom of most polls.

[crissykins]

one poll I look at, Austin has been dead last since day 37....was trying to figure out what happened on day 37 that turned the tide. he was in # 1 spot until the feeds went live, then the decline and dead last for the past 60 days! he thinks he's the "underdog" and that people are rooting for the underdog. delusional.(he will probably see this poll)

[BettyBoo]

When I first saw him, I thought he could be interesting, then he opened his mouth.

[KeninVA]

The practice, since going to a F3, is that the Jury does not see the eviction. I am pretty sure, they don't see the Final HoH comp, they are told, by Julie, when introducing the last juror, that "moments ago, when X won the last HoH". That is why I don't think all the speeches mean much. Vanessa, as the final jurist, would get to shape the answer, if she wants, by asking Liz, how she got Steve to turn on her. The last juror controls the final question, and can ask it of both of them, or only one of them. I think she can ask a different question of each juror.

Last year, Victoria only asked Derrick a question, and Cody did not get to either answer or respond.

[Tina182]

I am not sure - but Steve may have an advantage in the final HOH. I think he has interacted on a personal lever with everyone. Vanessa maybe not so much.
That is assuming the questions are the normal - this jury member said A or B.
Am I wrong?

[KeninVA]

That is the format, but I would not put too much stock in interactions. Vanessa interacted with this cast a lot more than many give her credit for. Plus, the questions are almost impossible to discern: Ex.

Austin said the most shocking thing that happened to him in the game was
A. Being blindsided by Vanessa
B. Falling in love with Liz

Either answer is plausible, and there is no way to "know" Austin and guess what he said, on a random day in the last week of the jury house.

Rachel failed to get Brendan's answer correct, on the season that she won, and she had been living with him for a year. The last comp is a coin toss, about as random as you can get.

[SmilemakerRDH]

I agree. I think Vanessa's anti-social ness will hurt her here. She did way to much hiding in the HOH room, while Steve interacted with everyone constantly.

[TTOTambz2]

While I agree part 3 is a crap shoot I do believe there is a way for TPTB to manipulate it. In Ian's season TPTB wanted him to win and I remember there was at least 2 questions asked that were actually uttered in front of Ian. If you recall he got all of them right.

Last season didn't matter b/c TPTB knew Cody was taking Derrick regardless of who won.

In BBCan it was interesting this year b/c they asked Godfrey questions he also had a better read on.

So, while it is arbitrary it does somewhat depend on who was around while something was said. Again, I specifically remember thinking Ian was alone with Britt re: the question they asked. After the fact Dan even asked Ian how he knew that answer or if it was just a guess.

Bottom line if TPTB want to see Vanessa win they'll tailor at least a couple of questions to give her an advantage. Unless they want the social misfit to win the comp which is all based on his read of the house.... IRONY.

It is kind of funny b/c so much of the game is based on comp wins and strategy, but it is meant to be a social interaction game, so I've always enjoyed the fact the final part is all about your read of the people. Granted as Ken says it's a coin toss often. I used to like it more when they used an actual thing contestants said. In recent years the hamsters try to fool the F2 by saying something completely out of character which isn't cool.

[BettyBoo]

I really don't like these canned softball questions we now see at the end. I want something real, like Sue's snakes and rats speech on the original Survivor. I love the Jury to really duke it out with the players. The last one evicted really get gyped since they get none of the decompression time the rest of the Jury gets. I understand TPTB do it to keep the mystery of the Final Two till last show, but it takes the spark out of the Jury segment.

[BBhead]

I agree. It's like canned laughter on a sitcom. Bring the dirt, I say! Keep it real, since it IS supposed to be a reality show. If someone plays a dirty game, they should have to answer for it and truly earn that win.

[KeninVA]

Worst change in the format since Grodner took over. It really does not allow for a complex game to be explained, and for the player who made big moves, to really own the move. Dan would probably not have won in a sweep in season 10, and might not have won, without getting to visit Michele, and having a roundtable that went on for 3 hours. Everybody got to vent their frustrations.

[farmergurl]

Watching Vanessa talk with Liz on the step machine. First, Liz let slip that production was telling her when she was ahead of Steve's time and we know from another conversation with Steve that they gave her clues when she could not figure out the answer was double eviction. I know it is naive to want a fair game. But I am really disappointed when BB helps certain people when $500,000 is on the line. Now about our sweet, fair and caring Vanessa......How many times has she said she does not hold grudges? Sounds like that is her justification for taking Liz over Steve. More of Van's double standard. I so want to appreciate her game play but I stop at her INTEGRITY. I get the lying and manipulation but her holier than thou persona is awful. I hope she watches this season back and sees how completely she comes off as a two-faced individual.

[KeninVA]

I think Vanessa is going to be fine, post show. I think Steve is going to find it hard when he loses to Liz, 5-4, but maybe not. As far as being bitter, Steve and Liz's games were pretty on par. Even Steve said, in his speech, Vanessa drove the strategy. Liz had more successful HoH's, getting out bigger threats, including bigger threats to Vanessa's game. Why can't a vote for Liz be a loyalty vote for the last person in the house, who had her back, more than Steve did?

Liz is not Victoria, or Enzo, or Adam Poch, or any number of players that never had power. Liz is a threat to win, and in my eyes, is at least as deserving as Steve. And, if Steve says, he has thought the boot through, and believes 5 or the 6 uncomitted jurors are going to vote for him to win, then more power too him. I just think he is wrong. Read the The Hollywood Reporter story with the previous jurors. Lots of factors go into making a decision, chief among them, who do you like better. Meg and James like Liz a lot better than Steve. He is the one making a decision to give up 3 votes against him.

[farmergurl]

KeninVA. Yes Vanessa will be okay no matter what the outcome. She is educated, good looking, wealthy, and extremely delusional about what loyalty actual means. No one is perfect. I remember when Van made a statement to Steve about her having friends outside of the BB house and how she does not tolerate any kind of disloyalty or fakes. It sounded like a threat. And no one can live up to her perfect expectations. She would be A LOT of work to have any kind of relationship with beyond the superficial with her high demands. Sounds kind of lonely.

[BettyBoo]

It explains why she was so worried about her girlfriend still loving her. I can't imagine living with someone so demanding all the time.

[farmergurl]

One more thing, Has Liz completely forgotten that Vanessa lied and blind sided Austin? Got to give Liz credit for her acting chops. Liz has to play up to Vanessa to get to the final 2. There is no chance to see Steve and Vanessa in the final 2, but my perfect ending would be for Steve to beat Vanessa out right with votes in the final. I really am sad that Liz will be sitting in the second chair. Oh well, one consolation is watching Vanessa walk out the door in third place.

[farmergurl]

Cutencuddly, Exactly. Liz is an expert at feeding Vanessa's ego. Wait till Van sees the things Liz said and how bad she wanted her out when they were all gunning for her. Will Vanessa admit that her read on people was not as accurate as she believed? Doubt it.

[KeninVA]

Well, F9/F8 she did know the twins were "off", and repeatedly questioned them, and Austin. Steve told them Austin had to spend more time with her, and he is really good. But, I recall she was pretty paranoid. The reason she does not view the twins as betraying her is 1. They did not put her up, and Liz kept Austin from putting her up, 2. She understood why Liz felt betrayed by her, since she was the one being forced on the block as an unknowing pawn, and the whole, James throw Veto plan. She admitted in F8, F6 (F7 was the DE) that keeping that secret for Jackie and James, was one of her biggest mistakes of the game. She booted Austin, since from week 3, he had continually betrayed her, and so when she had to choose between Steve and Liz and Austin, she chose Steve and Liz, over him. I think her rationale is perfectly logical, and Jmac was actually counting on peeling Austin from Vanessa. It's not like he had not done it before, with James/Meg.

[TTOTambz2]

Ken,

Your comment highlights perfectly what Vanessa did brilliantly in the game. She told Liz she was keeping a secret for James/Jackie BUT she neglected to tell her it was HER plan the whole time. Originally Jackie wanted to take out Steve, but Vanessa shifted her focus away from Steve onto Austin. She sat down James, Meg and Jason in a room to pull them into the one week faker than fake F9 deal & laid out the entire plan for Liz/one of Jason/Meg/James to lose BOTB with Liz and then have Austin go up as the replacement.

Things only shifted once Vanessa won HOH. That is NOT something she can take credit for b/c she put up 2 beasts in Clay/Becky so she would win & not be HOH.

She was smart in retrospect by explaining it the way she did, but she held back the most vital info. It just goes to prove how much more advanced she was than the others. If someone else had pulled that on Vanessa you better believe she would have got to the bottom of their REASON for doing it. lol

[cutencuddly]

#TeamFarmergurl

[jules242]

I wasn't around to chat live last night, so I don't know if anyone mentioned the edit of Steve, especially with Johnny Mac. This has certainly been a sexually ambiguous cast, with Vanessa married to a man and now with a woman, all the behind the scenes chat about Austin flirting with men and women this year, and now Steve. He had alluded a couple times to Vanessa that he may be attracted to men, even though he has been flirting with Julia. I was surprised to see the edit with the cuddling and then asking Johnny Mac if he had kissed a man before. (the look was priceless Johnny Mac). I was surprised TPTB went there with the edit last night.

[farmergurl]

Maybe Big Brother is trying to be edgy and relevant. I believe a mix of age, culture, race and the LGBT community would make for a better game. I just get disappointed when they pick house guests that have celebrity and fame already. It would be best to do a Celebrity Big Brother instead of throwing them into the mix with average Joes and Janes. BB tends to play favorites with the celebs.

[BettyBoo]

Read KeninVA comments and it sounds like you're saying, who would Steve rather lose to? Giggle, poor Steve. He MAY not beat Liz, but he sure WON'T beat Vanessa, so he might as well take the shot. IF he was able to state it cleverly, he could point out that Vanessa eliminated John and Austin since she viewed them as her biggest threats, so he must eliminate Vanessa as a threat. Of course, it makes Liz look like less a of a player, so he must emphasize Vanessa as the wicked puppet master he had to finally take out. (Admittedly, I doubt he'll be able to express himself as he should to the Jury, so I did start my conclusion with a big 'IF'.) Vanessa would have NO problem taking credits for HER hits.

Steve, if Vanessa is likely going to eliminate you, then beat her to the punch and hang that black-rooted bleach blond scalp on your belt. Then take your chances with the Jury who are more bitter towards Vanessa than you. You may get some credit for finally being Steve the Giant Killer.