Live Feed Discussion-July 7

[sdkgeo]

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[sdkgeo]

Here is a list of who knows about Liz and Julia switching out;

Day
Jason
Meg
Jeff
Steve
Jackie
James

and Jeff just told:
Shelli
Clay

[BettyBoo]

Oh blah, this house cannot keep a secret. They all know Da has the power to nullify votes, so seriously doubt there will be any flip this Thursday nite. And Liz & Julie have been easily detected, so that game is over. It's getting to be like reading the last chapter in an Agatha Christie book first.

But hope springs eternal. Maybe Vanessa can work w/Steve and start an outsider alliance w/Jason. Maybe they can work to flip Da's vote based on her power. Maybe Liz/Julie will survive long enough despite the fact the HG s have figured the twin twist, so they can play together. Maybe TPTB' s next twist will work? Maybe I'll win the Publishers Clearing House?

A girl can only dream.

[KeninVA]

Morning Geo, and all who follow,

Lots of movement last night, as Da won the 7th call, and figured out Liz was a twin. With those two gifts, Da had a shot at staying in the game. She then told Jason, who told Meg, and lickety split, it spread around the house. A major point of leverage with Liz has evaporated overnight. Da will be hard pressed to come up with 5 votes at this point. Da's game processes is totally flawed, and her read on the house, brought on by spending all her time with her Clique of 5, has blinded her to the reality of being on the bottom of her alliance. She will exit the house helping them, but not herself. It is early days yet, but I am pretty confident that at this point, Da will be processed for the chair next to Julie.

Meanwhile, Jeff had an interesting talk with Jackie, and re-iterated his boot list as Audrey, Austin, Vanessa, Steve, and Liz. This is the same list, if not the same order, as the After Dark Crew. I don't know if the knowledge that Liz represents two players changes that line-up, but it might, depending on if you think Liz/Julia is on your side.

All the talk today will be about Liz, and Da will continue to try to cobble together votes, but I suspect she will fall totally short. She is not thinking about pulling together a new alliance, with Jason, though they should be. It's a shame, because Jason totally see's Jeff's game (at least part of it, he does not see the Clay/Jeff partnership), and knows that at best, he is a final 4 goat. But, he is so wrapped on his being with an "in" crowd, and Da is playing on personal connections, to the exclusion of her game life, that they don't see, or can't execute an effective strategy to save Da. Early days yet, and Meg could melt down, but I think Da's best chance has slipped through her fingers.

[Livzee]

KeninVA you really are back.... Feeling like things are finally normal in my summer. Too bad Jason is so into being cool and not using his good brain.

[joahnn00]

I can not believe Da did not keep this to herself, she had to tell the biggest mouth in the house. Yep she's toast.

[BellaLoona]

Hi everyone. I've been around here, probably since the first couple of years and used to post actively but have become more of a lurker over time. It is nice to see the new site and all the same ole' people.

I have to chime in here and forgive me for just now signing up for the new site and being behind on everyone's thoughts.

My daughter is absolutely convinced that Da and Vanessa must know each other. Has this theory been brought up? I mean I assume it has been but I'm curious.

My understanding is that BB is going to bring in twists from previous years and since one of the twists was HGs knowing each other, I figured that might fall into place.

Also one year HGs had an ex twist so what if someone in there is a broken up couple?

I've been seeking out the place to talk about theories but haven't found a forum for them yet and figured after last nights turns, it might be a good time to bring up the Da/Vanessa theory.

Thanks to all of you and BBU for always being here, even if you don't know you are. LOL

[KeninVA]

I think it is entirely possible, but unlikely, that Da knows Vanessa. I am sure Vanessa does not know Da. At one time, Vanessa was the Top 5 women poker players in the world. She was in Sports Illustrated, she had an endorsement deal with GoDaddy, etc. She was/is very big in the poker world. Vanessa is a local dealer around small time poker houses in LA. The reason I don't think Da knows Vanessa is that she does not keep secrets well, and would have either outed, or worked with Vanessa before this. Without that evidence, I just don't see it.

[augie33]

I don't believe that they do. The two of them had a conversation in the has not room alone one day (can't remember when). Vanessa was telling Da all about poker playing and Da just kept saying uh huh uh huh. Pretending not to know anything about poker playing.

[nonobadfish]

I don't like this turn of events AT ALL because 1. It takes the heat off Audrey AGAIN!!!! and 2. I like the Twin Twist and 3. I like John and I HATE him running to Shelli/Clay and reporting about Day. (I know this last isn't about the twin discovery, but I'm still unhappy about it because Johnny Mac shouldn't be aligned with Barbie and Ken.)

I hope Liz/Julia wins HoH and flips things upside down. But I guess is adds a little bit of drama while we wait for the upcoming confrontation with Liz.

Questions:
1. What will CBS do now? Do they keep switching the twins in and out even though they have been found out? They didn't say they had to be undetected....just unevicted, I think.

2. Will it dawn on Vanessa/Austin/Steve or anyone else that it gives them another vote in their alliance if they can keep Liz/Julia until they are both in the house?

3. Will it dawn on Jason (or the others who know the game) that there STILL are too few HGs for the number of weeks left, and if the Twin Twist busts, then they are guaranteeing that somebody who gets evicted will return? If there isn't an extra twin in the house, there almost has to be a Returning HG. (Jason should have kept his mouth shut until they thought this through).

4. Why did CBS have three sets of twins (one unacknowledged) in the house for Season 5 when they did the twin twist and now have three sets of twins in the house for Season 17 for the return of the Twin Twist? That's too big of a co-incidence not to be planned, right?

[KeninVA]

Nono, re: the twins, I think they have multiple twins in contention during casting for who will be the twist. They just don't know it. DR gave a lot of info out, asking about twins in the house, which raised the bar significantly for Liz/Julia. I think Vanessa/Austin would have no problem keeping them in. Not sure how Jackie and Steve will feel. I don't think the outsiders gather around Austin/Vanessa know about each other. From the Jeff/Jackie convo I saw, neither Jeff or Jackie know that Austin and Vanessa are operating as a pair (which Shelly and Clay has kept from them). I also read, but did not see, that Clay is happy to have the heat off Audrey, at least in front of Shelli, so this might mean Clay is playing a better game than I give him credit for.

[Livzee]

Shelli just mentioned to clay that she was asked by her handler about her twin to see if he could be on the show. That confirms that twins are a focus for sure. Maybe someone is being held in the wings.

[nonobadfish]

Ken, I wondered if the DR was giving out hints about the twins...I thought that maybe that was Audrey stirring up things at first. But then Da started talking about it (someone pointed out she mentioned it on June 26), so why did the DR stir that up? And Livzee....I just read that Shelli told Clay they wanted her twin to join. That's kinda weird.

Back to your point about the alliances, Ken. This year it's really hard to know what some are truly thinking (like Austin and Vanessa). I would think Austin (with his game knowledge) would realize that he can garner up the outsiders, but he doesn't appear exactly sure which of those outsiders are available....or even who the outsiders truly are. But it'd be great if they can form REAL outsider alliance. As for Clay....SHEESH. I do NOT want to give him any credit for playing a good game. I'm biased against him for his instagram/tweets, but on top of that...he thinks he knows how to play and he doesn't. I'm mostly biased against him because he called himself a Super Fan and then stated he only started watching 4 months ago (and I think only watched two season. Some Super Fan).

[nonobadfish]

Da's strengths were many: She KNOWS the game (has watched since Season 1). She is super aware of details (knows who is aligned with whom from studying their actions, deduced the twins were twins, see things that others don't). She reads people's motives and is usually right. But she can't PLAY the game well because she doesn't take kindly to people she doesn't agree with, so she stays with her clique of 5 too much because they don't upset her. When she wanders out of her clique, she reacts way too strongly to the actions she doesn't like, and then she makes enemies. And Ken is right (OF COURSE)...all that time spent with her 5 has made her unaware of her position with them. She can see what the others are thinking, but not her own alliance.

I wonder if Jason wants her out, too, (even though he loves her) due to seeing her as irreparably damaged in the game? Maybe that's why he blabbed about the twins to Meg and the others? He's already moved on from Da, and need to help his alliance of Meg/James by giving them the twin info?

I really wanted to keep her around because of her insight and attention to detail AND because Barbie and Ken want her gone (and who am I kidding...her DRAMA), but I just don't see it happening UNLESS Vanessa/Austin/Steve/Liz get a clue that they need to align with her to save Liz and gain an alliance that might have some numbers. I guess that could possibly happen, but it also will depend on what CBS' plan is for a discovered twin.

One more thing: I don't understand Robyn Kass' decisions each year when it comes to the race diversity of her casts on Big Brother. It's rare for anyone who isn't Caucasian to make it very far (Jun as the noted exception), and I think one of the reasons is because the lack of race diversity makes it harder for a non-Caucasian to get a foot-hold (especially when Robyn continues to cast people like Clay who likes to joke about non-Caucasians on twitter). That makes my tender-heart hurt worse when we lose a Da'vonne.

[nonobadfish]

One more thing....and then I've got to get ready and go to the office. (Hey, it's just like old times....I'm doing "One more thing" posts!!!!!!):

I can't believe that Austin doesn't know about Liz being a twin as much time as he spends with her. Jace didn't know, but Jace doesn't know the game and has a different personality than Austin. But SURELY Austin has noticed the difference in the twins...surely, right? If not, I'm going to just have to say this: "Men."

[joebourg62]

"Men"..LOL. Perhaps it is their young ages, but since I am 52, I can look beyond Liz/Julia's boobs. If they would pay attention, they would notice that Liz has 3 moles on her upper chest between her boobs and her neck. Julia has only one.

[Blogzie]

Nono,

Are you forgetting about Danielle Reyes who is considered to be one of the top BB players of all time?

[Blogzie]

Also, are the HG voting out Da because of her race or her game play? Or that she is so good they considered her a threat to their game?

I loved Howard in BB15. I was really rooting for him in the game and hoped he would go far. Ultimately, I realized that he just wasn't very good at playing the game and I had to accept that.

[CubbyBrother]

Blogz---I'm sensing that if Da goes it will be on gameplay. I don't sense any racial overtones. I think she, like Jace and Audrey come off a little to brash and the outspoken or standoffish and make themselves easy targets at this stage of the game. It is still way too early to start picking players off because they are a threat later in the game. My opinion is that Steve, Austin, and Vanessa (and maybe John) are working on reading people...Steve may be overplaying meekness a little bit, but most of the others (Jeff) are just talking a good game now. Until we see the first "non-house" eviction vote I think it's too early to assess an eviction on anything other than personality/game play.

[nonobadfish]

I didn't count Danielle because she didn't win, Blogzie..but I should have mentioned her! My point was that it's rare. And I do agree...(I want to make sure to make this point): I think the HG are voting out Da because of her game play, not her race at this point. And I think it's probably smarter game play to get her out instead of Meg. (But they should have gotten Audrey). So I promise I'm not trying to turn Da's eviction into a race issue.

But I think she was on Clay's radar because she's different than the people he is used to. And his insensitive Instagrams and tweets about African-Americans pre-game don't help my view of him. My main point was that I think, overall, Robyn doesn't do a good job of diverse racial casting, especially considering personalities.

But again...No, I think Da is ultimately being voted out for game-play. As I said above, she's good at knowing the game, but not good at playing it. And she can't win comps. So she was a goner before long anyway. It's her bad luck that Shelli won HoH and Clay pointed her at Da....she probably could have made it longer if not for that. But Da should have handled Clay better at the outset....she should have realized his bias and been not as abrasive to him as she was.

[Blogzie]

I agree with both of you. It would be too horrible to think otherwise, although I'm sure it may be in the minds of some of the HG's. Clay is an idiot, both in and out of the game. I'm sure that Ms. Kass knows who the potential bigots are in any given season. The casting process is quite lengthy and I think it would be difficult for someone to hide who they truly are. She does like to stir the pot. I do think that Season 15 caught everyone by surprise and not in a good way.

[~smee~]

Quote nonobadfish : " But Da should have handled Clay better at the outset....she should have realized his bias and been not as abrasive to him as she was." Gamewise, ITA, but in my heart I think she should have realized his bias and been WAY MORE abrasive to him.

Note: I have not figured out how to quote a reply -- only an original post. So I just copy and paste -- hope that is ok.

[adeets3945]

Please don't misunderstand and think I am complaining about this. In years past, there would always be numerous posts on the discussion threads (sometimes 20 or 30 pages) and on the life feed updates. It seems that this year there are so few. Are there just not enough live feeders or not as many people coming to the rooms or am I just looking in the wrong places? Last night, the information I got was coming from other people's tweets. Again, I am not complaining. I don't know what I'd do without Big Brother Updates.

[~smee~]

Hey, adeets! I totally get where you are coming from, as I always have relied on the LFU's while I am at work and otherwise occupied with real life. Unfortunately, I think we just do not have as many volunteers to actually enter the updates anymore. The people who spend their time doing this for us are so amazing, and I could not be more grateful for anything we get. I wish I could help, but my vision is not good enough, so I rarely watch the feeds. Thought with the CBS All Access on Roku, I could watch on my big screen TV, and post on my computer at the same time this year. Unfortunately, the streaming on Roku is only is certain areas, and is not available in mine. I know, excuses, excuses. Anyway, keep hanging in here with us. At least we can all talk about we do know, and I learn so much from all of you. BBUddies forever!

[Livzee]

I'm not complaining either, but we lurkers depend on spying the discussion. Some of us will have to step up more and be seen. Transitioning to this site was a big deal I think so we may still get more activity as time goes on. Several of my fave posters are here now, so I am grateful for them.

[KeninVA]

Quote nonobadfish : " But Da should have handled Clay better at the outset....she should have realized his bias and been not as abrasive to him as she was." Gamewise, ITA, but in my heart I think she should have realized his bias and been WAY MORE abrasive to him.

Note: I have not figured out how to quote a reply -- only an original post. So I just copy and paste -- hope that is ok.

Smee, Under the post you want to quote, press the "Quote icon. That populates the little message box at the bottom and then you can put your two or three or more cents (or peanuts ) in. I did not know Clay had any biases actually. I don't know any of the players real back stories, except Vanessa, who I looked up the other day, and as a public figure, has a lot written about her online.

[~smee~]

Thanks, Ken. I have been able to do that on original posts, but on replies, I can't find the quote button. I'm old, y'know...

[nonobadfish]

Quote nonobadfish : " But Da should have handled Clay better at the outset....she should have realized his bias and been not as abrasive to him as she was." Gamewise, ITA, but in my heart I think she should have realized his bias and been WAY MORE abrasive to him.

Note: I have not figured out how to quote a reply -- only an original post. So I just copy and paste -- hope that is ok.

Hey, Smee....In my heart (not considering gameplay at all), I wish she had chewed him up and spit him out. So I'm with you. (Not at all surprised that we're on the same page here). ❤️

[~smee~]

Too true, my friend.